Insteqad of pissing and moaning, "john" how about doing something useful?

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Sent to NBC Nightly News:

With all the reports on Toyota's stuck accelerator problem, no one has
really said a lot about how to control the car if it does get away from
you. These are common-sense rules for handling a Toyota recently on
recall, and general rules for any car on which the accelerator is
sticking:

1. If the accelerator sticks in an open position, do not try to free it by
pressing on it! Get the car into neutral first.

2. Get the transmission into Neutral! Most cars sold in the US have
Automatic transmissions. For the 5% sold with manual transmissions,
depress the clutch and move the shift lever into Neutral.

For Automatics: if the vehicle is not equipped with a "Sport Shift" style
transmission, move the gear selector from Drive or Overdrive to the
Neutral position, in almost all cases one notch. On cars equipped with a
Sport Shift style transmission, the gear selector has to be moved back to
the Drive position before it can be shifted into Neutral.
On the Toyota models that have the Sport Shift and are subject to the
recall, it is best to refrain from using the manual shift option and until
the car is repaired; use the Drive position. Seconds can matter.

3. Turn the key to the ACC position.

On cars with a key, turn the key back one click to the ACC position. This
shuts off the engine to prevent any damage, but also turns off the power
steering and power brakes. The car will become harder to steer and stop,
but the engine will be off so if the gearshift is accidently moved back
into a gear, the car will coast to a stop.

4. Plant on or both feet firmly on the brakes.

Pedal pressure will be light until the effects of the engine being turned
off start to be felt. At first the pedal will operate normally. Do not
pump the pedal. This will cause the pedal to operate harder more quickly.
Instead, with one or both feet, depress the pedal and bring the car to a
safe stop.

5. At some point when it is safe to do so, turn on the flashers.

This will alert other drivers on the road that you are experiencing a
problem and hopefully avoid a collision.


These steps will ensure most people a safe stop.

Instead of telling us how bad Toyotas have become, and scaring the
daylights out of people, you would better serve the public by passing
these steps along to keep people safe.

It should also be mentioned that if a person is intimidated by their car
and might be unable to follow these steps, they should avoid driving the
car until the repair is made, and either have the car towed to the dealer,
or have it driven there by someone who would be able to control the car in
case of a runaway situation.

Having a scared person behind the wheel of an uncontrollable car is the
last thing that should be allowed to happen!

[Mike Hunter]

The problem with your suggestion is, by the time the average woman and older
guys that buy Toyotas, thinks to do all that they will have hit something
;)

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
With all the reports on Toyota's stuck accelerator problem, no one has
really said a lot about how to control the car if it does get away from
you. These are common-sense rules for handling a Toyota recently on
recall, and general rules for any car on which the accelerator is
1. If the accelerator sticks in an open position, do not try to free it by
pressing on it! Get the car into neutral first.
2. Get the transmission into Neutral! Most cars sold in the US have
Automatic transmissions. For the 5% sold with manual transmissions,
depress the clutch and move the shift lever into Neutral.
For Automatics: if the vehicle is not equipped with a "Sport Shift" style
transmission, move the gear selector from Drive or Overdrive to the
Neutral position, in almost all cases one notch. On cars equipped with a
Sport Shift style transmission, the gear selector has to be moved back to
the Drive position before it can be shifted into Neutral.
On the Toyota models that have the Sport Shift and are subject to the
recall, it is best to refrain from using the manual shift option and until
the car is repaired; use the Drive position. Seconds can matter.
3. Turn the key to the ACC position.
On cars with a key, turn the key back one click to the ACC position. This
shuts off the engine to prevent any damage, but also turns off the power
steering and power brakes. The car will become harder to steer and stop,
but the engine will be off so if the gearshift is accidently moved back
into a gear, the car will coast to a stop.
4. Plant on or both feet firmly on the brakes.
Pedal pressure will be light until the effects of the engine being turned
off start to be felt. At first the pedal will operate normally. Do not
pump the pedal. This will cause the pedal to operate harder more quickly.
Instead, with one or both feet, depress the pedal and bring the car to a
safe stop.
5. At some point when it is safe to do so, turn on the flashers.
This will alert other drivers on the road that you are experiencing a
problem and hopefully avoid a collision.
These steps will ensure most people a safe stop.
Instead of telling us how bad Toyotas have become, and scaring the
daylights out of people, you would better serve the public by passing
these steps along to keep people safe.
It should also be mentioned that if a person is intimidated by their car
and might be unable to follow these steps, they should avoid driving the
car until the repair is made, and either have the car towed to the dealer,
or have it driven there by someone who would be able to control the car in
case of a runaway situation.
Having a scared person behind the wheel of an uncontrollable car is the
last thing that should be allowed to happen!

[me]

Older guys, huh. I'm 57 and can drive rings around your lame little
butt. Track or road, done em both. I suppose you are in your 20's. Guess
why MY insurance is cheaper than yours.

Post by Mike Hunter
The problem with your suggestion is, by the time the average woman and
older guys that buy Toyotas, thinks to do all that they will have hit
something ;)

<SNIP>

[Mike Hunter]

I have cars older than that! I raced with Mario Andretti at Nazareth PA,
way back when it was a dirt track, in the sixties. LOL

Post by me
Older guys, huh. I'm 57 and can drive rings around your lame little
butt. Track or road, done em both. I suppose you are in your 20's. Guess
why MY insurance is cheaper than yours.

Post by Mike Hunter
The problem with your suggestion is, by the time the average woman and
older guys that buy Toyotas, thinks to do all that they will have hit
something ;)

<SNIP>

[Mike Hunter]

I have cars older than that! I raced with Mario Andretti at Nazareth PA,
way back when it was a dirt track, in the sixties. LOL

Post by me
Older guys, huh. I'm 57 and can drive rings around your lame little
butt. Track or road, done em both. I suppose you are in your 20's. Guess
why MY insurance is cheaper than yours.

Post by Mike Hunter
The problem with your suggestion is, by the time the average woman and
older guys that buy Toyotas, thinks to do all that they will have hit
something ;)

<SNIP>

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Older guys, huh. I'm 57 and can drive rings around your lame little butt.
Track or road, done em both. I suppose you are in your 20's. Guess why MY
insurance is cheaper than yours.

(you have your 'follow up' set to your e-mail addy...)

Now you're in for it...Other end of the spectrum! ;)

Post by Mike Hunter
The problem with your suggestion is, by the time the average woman and
older guys that buy Toyotas, thinks to do all that they will have hit
something ;)

<SNIP>

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by Mike Hunter
The problem with your suggestion is, by the time the average woman and
older guys that buy Toyotas, thinks to do all that they will have hit
something ;)

I know. It's kinda like pissin in the wind...

Post by Mike Hunter

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
With all the reports on Toyota's stuck accelerator problem, no one has
really said a lot about how to control the car if it does get away from
you. These are common-sense rules for handling a Toyota recently on
recall, and general rules for any car on which the accelerator is
1. If the accelerator sticks in an open position, do not try to free it
by pressing on it! Get the car into neutral first.
2. Get the transmission into Neutral! Most cars sold in the US have
Automatic transmissions. For the 5% sold with manual transmissions,
depress the clutch and move the shift lever into Neutral.
For Automatics: if the vehicle is not equipped with a "Sport Shift"
style transmission, move the gear selector from Drive or Overdrive to
the Neutral position, in almost all cases one notch. On cars equipped
with a Sport Shift style transmission, the gear selector has to be moved
back to the Drive position before it can be shifted into Neutral. On the
Toyota models that have the Sport Shift and are subject to the recall,
it is best to refrain from using the manual shift option and until the
car is repaired; use the Drive position. Seconds can matter.
3. Turn the key to the ACC position.
On cars with a key, turn the key back one click to the ACC position.
This shuts off the engine to prevent any damage, but also turns off the
power steering and power brakes. The car will become harder to steer and
stop, but the engine will be off so if the gearshift is accidently moved
back into a gear, the car will coast to a stop.
4. Plant on or both feet firmly on the brakes.
Pedal pressure will be light until the effects of the engine being
turned off start to be felt. At first the pedal will operate normally.
Do not pump the pedal. This will cause the pedal to operate harder more
quickly. Instead, with one or both feet, depress the pedal and bring the
car to a safe stop.
5. At some point when it is safe to do so, turn on the flashers.
This will alert other drivers on the road that you are experiencing a
problem and hopefully avoid a collision.
These steps will ensure most people a safe stop.
Instead of telling us how bad Toyotas have become, and scaring the
daylights out of people, you would better serve the public by passing
these steps along to keep people safe.
It should also be mentioned that if a person is intimidated by their car
and might be unable to follow these steps, they should avoid driving the
car until the repair is made, and either have the car towed to the
dealer, or have it driven there by someone who would be able to control
the car in case of a runaway situation.
Having a scared person behind the wheel of an uncontrollable car is the
last thing that should be allowed to happen!

[Al Falfa]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by Mike Hunter
The problem with your suggestion is, by the time the average woman and
older guys that buy Toyotas, thinks to do all that they will have hit
something ;)

I know. It's kinda like pissin in the wind...

Tell us what that is like.

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by Al Falfa

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by Mike Hunter
The problem with your suggestion is, by the time the average woman and
older guys that buy Toyotas, thinks to do all that they will have hit
something ;)

I know. It's kinda like pissin in the wind...

Tell us what that is like.

No imagination? Go outside and try it.

[fred]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
With all the reports on Toyota's stuck accelerator problem, no one has
really said a lot about how to control the car if it does get away
from you. These are common-sense rules for handling a Toyota recently
on recall, and general rules for any car on which the accelerator is
1. If the accelerator sticks in an open position, do not try to free
it by pressing on it! Get the car into neutral first.

1b. Also do *not* crawl down and try to move either the carpet or the pedal
by hand as this will make you spill your beer and could spill the deepfryer
making things worse.
<g>

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
Instead of telling us how bad Toyotas have become, and scaring the
daylights out of people, you would better serve the public by passing
these steps along to keep people safe.

Standard press MO. Hardly surprising. I would imagine the trade/auto
enthusiast journals are somewhat more clear on such things.

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
It should also be mentioned that if a person is intimidated by their
car and might be unable to follow these steps, they should avoid
driving the car until the repair is made, and either have the car
towed to the dealer, or have it driven there by someone who would be
able to control the car in case of a runaway situation.
Having a scared person behind the wheel of an uncontrollable car is
the last thing that should be allowed to happen!

But unfortunately it happens *far* too often.

[twisted]

On Feb 4, 5:18 pm, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B <***@e86.GTS> wrote:

That's stupid. Put it in neutral so it revs up and blows! Damn
intelligent. Just turn the ignition off!

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by twisted
That's stupid. Put it in neutral so it revs up and blows! Damn
intelligent. Just turn the ignition off!

Um, what happens when you turn the ignition off in gear?

[twisted]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by twisted
That's stupid. Put it in neutral so it revs up and blows! Damn
intelligent. Just turn the ignition off!

Um, what happens when you turn the ignition off in gear?

Um, the engine shuts off and the car slows down.

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by twisted

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by twisted
That's stupid. Put it in neutral so it revs up and blows! Damn
intelligent. Just turn the ignition off!

Um, what happens when you turn the ignition off in gear?

Um, the engine shuts off and the car slows down.

In a 1964 Biscayne, this was true.

[ransley]

Post by twisted
That's stupid. Put it in neutral so it revs up and blows! Damn
intelligent. Just turn the ignition off!

It has a rev limiter, the motor powers the brakes, it wont blow.

[fred]

Post by twisted
That's stupid. Put it in neutral so it revs up and blows! Damn
intelligent. Just turn the ignition off!

You've never even driven a car have you? it shows.

[ransley]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
With all the reports on Toyota's stuck accelerator problem, no one has
really said a lot about how to control the car if it does get away from
you. These are common-sense rules for handling a Toyota recently on
recall, and general rules for any car on which the accelerator is
1. If the accelerator sticks in an open position, do not try to free it by
pressing on it! Get the car into neutral first.
2. Get the transmission into Neutral! Most cars sold in the US have
Automatic transmissions. For the 5% sold with manual transmissions,
depress the clutch and move the shift lever into Neutral.
For Automatics: if the vehicle is not equipped with a "Sport Shift" style
transmission, move the gear selector from Drive or Overdrive to the
Neutral position, in almost all cases one notch. On cars equipped with a
Sport Shift style transmission, the gear selector has to be moved back to
the Drive position before it can be shifted into Neutral.
On the Toyota models that have the Sport Shift and are subject to the
recall, it is best to refrain from using the manual shift option and until
the car is repaired; use the Drive position. Seconds can matter.
3. Turn the key to the ACC position.
On cars with a key, turn the key back one click to the ACC position. This
shuts off the engine to prevent any damage, but also turns off the power
steering and power brakes. The car will become harder to steer and stop,
but the engine will be off so if the gearshift is accidently moved back
into a gear, the car will coast to a stop.
4. Plant on or both feet firmly on the brakes.
Pedal pressure will be light until the effects of the engine being turned
off start to be felt. At first the pedal will operate normally. Do not
pump the pedal. This will cause the pedal to operate harder more quickly.
Instead, with one or both feet, depress the pedal and bring the car to a
safe stop.
5. At some point when it is safe to do so, turn on the flashers.
This will alert other drivers on the road that you are experiencing a
problem and hopefully avoid a collision.
These steps will ensure most people a safe stop.
Instead of telling us how bad Toyotas have become, and scaring the
daylights out of people, you would better serve the public by passing
these steps along to keep people safe.
It should also be mentioned that if a person is intimidated by their car
and might be unable to follow these steps, they should avoid driving the
car until the repair is made, and either have the car towed to the dealer,
or have it driven there by someone who would be able to control the car in
case of a runaway situation.
Having a scared person behind the wheel of an uncontrollable car is the
last thing that should be allowed to happen!

3 a bad idea, brakes are Hydraulic, powered by the motor, no motor, no
brakes, the motor has a rev limiter it wont blow. Now if you said use
the emergency brake that would give something, about 45% brake power.
But so what that he posts News, he posts facts, does it hurt your
feelings about toyota. As I see it the CEO is a idiot, they ignore the
Prius issues but now admit fixing the production run of about a week
ago and tell no one!. I heard they havnt figured out how to contact
Prius owners[which of course is bs] what they have shown is a desire
to ignore it, and I still believe Wozniak more than any other, so as I
see it its far from over, its only beginning.

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by ransley

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
It should also be mentioned that if a person is intimidated by their car
and might be unable to follow these steps, they should avoid driving the
car until the repair is made, and either have the car towed to the
dealer, or have it driven there by someone who would be able to control
the car in case of a runaway situation.
Having a scared person behind the wheel of an uncontrollable car is the
last thing that should be allowed to happen!

3 a bad idea, brakes are Hydraulic, powered by the motor, no motor, no
brakes, the motor has a rev limiter it wont blow. Now if you said use the
emergency brake that would give something, about 45% brake power. But so
what that he posts News, he posts facts, does it hurt your feelings about
toyota.

Not really. When they got big they were bound to have a fuck-up.
What pisses me off is the big deal the media is making out of it. NBC
spends 5 minutes a night about it with no useful information, just Toyota
bashing. Wow. That's news!

As far as putting the transmission in Neutral, that's what EVERYONE is
saying.

But, I suppose this is better...

Loading Image...

[ransley]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by ransley

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
It should also be mentioned that if a person is intimidated by their car
and might be unable to follow these steps, they should avoid driving the
car until the repair is made, and either have the car towed to the
dealer, or have it driven there by someone who would be able to control
the car in case of a runaway situation.
Having a scared person behind the wheel of an uncontrollable car is the
last thing that should be allowed to happen!

3 a bad idea, brakes are Hydraulic, powered by the motor, no motor, no
brakes, the motor has a rev limiter it wont blow. Now if you said use the
emergency brake that would give something, about 45% brake power. But so
what that he posts News, he posts facts, does it hurt your feelings about
toyota.

Not really. When they got big they were bound to have a fuck-up.
What pisses me off is the big deal the media is making out of it. NBC
spends 5 minutes a night about it with no useful information, just Toyota
bashing. Wow. That's news!
As far as putting the transmission in Neutral, that's what EVERYONE is
saying.
But, I suppose this is better...
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/ht_car_accident_091102_ssh.jpg

They are only being bashed because what seems like its dragging on and
they knew. The Prius thing where they fix the issue on the production
line but dont offer a fix is kinda low of toyota, they knew it was an
issue but hopped it would go away they could have called it a milage
issue to put the fix through without it making a big deal. You know
how news brodcasters-shows are, tomorrow there will be a new "story"
that will be headlines, an earthquake, a plane crash, something thats
better. But the impression I get is the CEO is delaying action, that
is whats making it a story, and worse for the long run, its not like
they cant afford a fix or dont have one, it like they dont want to.

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by ransley

Post by ransley

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
It should also be mentioned that if a person is intimidated by their
car and might be unable to follow these steps, they should avoid
driving the car until the repair is made, and either have the car
towed to the dealer, or have it driven there by someone who would be
able to control the car in case of a runaway situation.
Having a scared person behind the wheel of an uncontrollable car is
the last thing that should be allowed to happen!

3 a bad idea, brakes are Hydraulic, powered by the motor, no motor, no
brakes, the motor has a rev limiter it wont blow. Now if you said use
the emergency brake that would give something, about 45% brake power.
But so what that he posts News, he posts facts, does it hurt your
feelings about toyota.

Not really. When they got big they were bound to have a fuck-up. What
pisses me off is the big deal the media is making out of it. NBC spends
5 minutes a night about it with no useful information, just Toyota
bashing. Wow. That's news!
As far as putting the transmission in Neutral, that's what EVERYONE is
saying.
But, I suppose this is better...
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/ht_car_accident_091102_ssh.jpg

They are only being bashed because what seems like its dragging on and
they knew. The Prius thing where they fix the issue on the production line
but dont offer a fix is kinda low of toyota, they knew it was an issue but
hopped it would go away they could have called it a milage issue to put
the fix through without it making a big deal. You know how news
brodcasters-shows are, tomorrow there will be a new "story" that will be
headlines, an earthquake, a plane crash, something thats better. But the
impression I get is the CEO is delaying action, that is whats making it a
story, and worse for the long run, its not like they cant afford a fix or
dont have one, it like they dont want to.

Plausible.

But I have had two Toyotas with 'problems', both fixed free after the
warranty had expired.
To me, they have always been a good company.
It wouldn't surprise me if they throttled back production in order to make
good cars again.

[ransley]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by ransley

Post by ransley

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
It should also be mentioned that if a person is intimidated by their
car and might be unable to follow these steps, they should avoid
driving the car until the repair is made, and either have the car
towed to the dealer, or have it driven there by someone who would be
able to control the car in case of a runaway situation.
Having a scared person behind the wheel of an uncontrollable car is
the last thing that should be allowed to happen!

3 a bad idea, brakes are Hydraulic, powered by the motor, no motor, no
brakes, the motor has a rev limiter it wont blow. Now if you said use
the emergency brake that would give something, about 45% brake power.
But so what that he posts News, he posts facts, does it hurt your
feelings about toyota.

Not really. When they got big they were bound to have a fuck-up. What
pisses me off is the big deal the media is making out of it. NBC spends
5 minutes a night about it with no useful information, just Toyota
bashing. Wow. That's news!
As far as putting the transmission in Neutral, that's what EVERYONE is
saying.
But, I suppose this is better...
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/ht_car_accident_091102_ssh.jpg

They are only being bashed because what seems like its dragging on and
they knew. The Prius thing where they fix the issue on the production line
but dont offer a fix is kinda low of toyota, they knew it was an issue but
hopped it would go away they could have called it a milage issue to put
the fix through without it making a big deal. You know how news
brodcasters-shows are, tomorrow there will be a new "story" that will be
headlines, an earthquake, a plane crash, something thats better. But the
impression I get is the CEO is delaying action, that is whats making it a
story, and worse for the long run, its not like they cant afford a fix or
dont have one, it like they dont want to.

Plausible.
But I have had two Toyotas with 'problems', both fixed free after the
warranty had expired.
To me, they have always been a good company.
It wouldn't surprise me if they throttled back production in order to make
good cars again.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Ive had problems fixed also, no problem with toyota. The new CEO has
alot to learn. Brakes are a bit more important than my radio recall,
they keep you from hitting, and killing things. You can import, get
approved and sell a car with a bad radio. You could never sell a car
with brakes that dont engage, lapse for 1 second, 1 second is often
all you have to react and and stop. Now consider Wozniaks claim its
software that makes his cruz control malfunction, and the software
controlls the brakes. It could be an easy or expensive fix but the CEO
knew and chose ignore it, Thats negligence.

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
But I have had two Toyotas with 'problems', both fixed free after the
warranty had expired.
To me, they have always been a good company. It wouldn't surprise me if
they throttled back production in order to make good cars again.- Hide
quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Ive had problems fixed also, no problem with toyota. The new CEO has alot
to learn. Brakes are a bit more important than my radio recall, they keep
you from hitting, and killing things. You can import, get approved and
sell a car with a bad radio. You could never sell a car with brakes that
dont engage, lapse for 1 second, 1 second is often all you have to react
and and stop. Now consider Wozniaks claim its software that makes his cruz
control malfunction, and the software controlls the brakes. It could be an
easy or expensive fix but the CEO knew and chose ignore it, Thats
negligence.

What about Ford?

Here's an interesting factoid: Ford was buying hybrid tech from Toyota,
and then stopped buying and sterted working on their own.

Now, the prius has a regen to friction brake delay, and so does Ford!

[fred]

Post by ransley

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by ransley

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
It should also be mentioned that if a person is intimidated by
their car and might be unable to follow these steps, they should
avoid driving the car until the repair is made, and either have
the car towed to the dealer, or have it driven there by someone
who would be able to control the car in case of a runaway
situation.
Having a scared person behind the wheel of an uncontrollable car
is the last thing that should be allowed to happen!

3 a bad idea, brakes are Hydraulic, powered by the motor, no motor,
no brakes, the motor has a rev limiter it wont blow. Now if you
said use the emergency brake that would give something, about 45%
brake power. But so what that he posts News, he posts facts, does
it hurt your feelings about toyota.

Not really. When they got big they were bound to have a fuck-up.
What pisses me off is the big deal the media is making out of it. NBC
spends 5 minutes a night about it with no useful information, just
Toyota bashing. Wow. That's news!
As far as putting the transmission in Neutral, that's what EVERYONE
is saying.
But, I suppose this is better...
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/ht_car_accident_091102_ssh.jpg

They are only being bashed because what seems like its dragging on and
they knew. The Prius thing where they fix the issue on the production
line but dont offer a fix is kinda low of toyota, they knew it was an
issue but hopped it would go away they could have called it a milage
issue to put the fix through without it making a big deal. You know
how news brodcasters-shows are, tomorrow there will be a new "story"
that will be headlines, an earthquake, a plane crash, something thats
better. But the impression I get is the CEO is delaying action, that
is whats making it a story, and worse for the long run, its not like
they cant afford a fix or dont have one, it like they dont want to.

No, the *problem* is the press wants a fix the day after they first report
it and Toyota is catering to their methods by responding to their constant
inane "is it fixed yet?". Look how long it takes for an airplane crash to
be investigated and the result reported to the press.

[David Z]

Post by fred

Post by ransley

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by ransley

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
It should also be mentioned that if a person is intimidated by
their car and might be unable to follow these steps, they should
avoid driving the car until the repair is made, and either have
the car towed to the dealer, or have it driven there by someone
who would be able to control the car in case of a runaway
situation.
Having a scared person behind the wheel of an uncontrollable car
is the last thing that should be allowed to happen!

3 a bad idea, brakes are Hydraulic, powered by the motor, no motor,
no brakes, the motor has a rev limiter it wont blow. Now if you
said use the emergency brake that would give something, about 45%
brake power. But so what that he posts News, he posts facts, does
it hurt your feelings about toyota.

Not really. When they got big they were bound to have a fuck-up.
What pisses me off is the big deal the media is making out of it. NBC
spends 5 minutes a night about it with no useful information, just
Toyota bashing. Wow. That's news!
As far as putting the transmission in Neutral, that's what EVERYONE
is saying.
But, I suppose this is better...
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/ht_car_accident_091102_ssh.jpg

They are only being bashed because what seems like its dragging on and
they knew. The Prius thing where they fix the issue on the production
line but dont offer a fix is kinda low of toyota, they knew it was an
issue but hopped it would go away they could have called it a milage
issue to put the fix through without it making a big deal. You know
how news brodcasters-shows are, tomorrow there will be a new "story"
that will be headlines, an earthquake, a plane crash, something thats
better. But the impression I get is the CEO is delaying action, that
is whats making it a story, and worse for the long run, its not like
they cant afford a fix or dont have one, it like they dont want to.

No, the *problem* is the press wants a fix the day after they first report
it and Toyota is catering to their methods by responding to their constant
inane "is it fixed yet?". Look how long it takes for an airplane crash to
be investigated and the result reported to the press.

With car recalls, ideally, the press should find out about the problem when
the recall is announced. The problem here, IMO, is that a culture has
evolved at Toyota whereby they deny and stonewall problems until they are
forced into admitting them. That's the lesson here.

The first "crash" happened years ago. Toyota has had plenty of time to
investigate. Instead they've used that time denying the problem exists.

[ransley]

Post by David Z

Post by fred

Post by ransley

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by ransley

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
It should also be mentioned that if a person is intimidated by
their car and might be unable to follow these steps, they should
avoid driving the car until the repair is made, and either have
the car towed to the dealer, or have it driven there by someone
who would be able to control the car in case of a runaway
situation.
Having a scared person behind the wheel of an uncontrollable car
is the last thing that should be allowed to happen!

3 a bad idea, brakes are Hydraulic, powered by the motor, no motor,
no brakes, the motor has a rev limiter it wont blow. Now if you
said use the emergency brake that would give something, about 45%
brake power. But so what that he posts News, he posts facts, does
it hurt your feelings about toyota.

Not really. When they got big they were bound to have a fuck-up.
What pisses me off is the big deal the media is making out of it. NBC
spends 5 minutes a night about it with no useful information, just
Toyota bashing. Wow. That's news!
As far as putting the transmission in Neutral, that's what EVERYONE
is saying.
But, I suppose this is better...
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/ht_car_accident_091102_ssh.jpg

They are only being bashed because what seems like its dragging on and
they knew. The Prius thing where they fix the issue on the production
line but dont offer a fix is kinda low of toyota, they knew it was an
issue but hopped it would go away they could have called it a milage
issue to put the fix through without it making a big deal. You know
how news brodcasters-shows are, tomorrow there will be a new "story"
that will be headlines, an earthquake, a plane crash, something thats
better. But the impression I get is the CEO is delaying action, that
is whats making it a story, and worse for the long run, its not like
they cant afford a fix or dont have one, it like they dont want to.

No, the *problem* is the press wants a fix the day after they first report
it and Toyota is catering to their methods by responding to their constant
inane "is it fixed yet?". Look how long it takes for an airplane crash to
be investigated and the result reported to the press.

With car recalls, ideally, the press should find out about the problem when
the recall is announced. The problem here, IMO, is that a culture has
evolved at Toyota whereby they deny and stonewall problems until they are
forced into admitting them. That's the lesson here.
The first "crash" happened years ago. Toyota has had plenty of time to
investigate. Instead they've used that time denying the problem exists.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

If it wasnt for our NHTSA nothing would have been done ever, anywhere.

[Al Falfa]

Post by David Z
With car recalls, ideally, the press should find out about the problem
when the recall is announced. The problem here, IMO, is that a culture
has evolved at Toyota whereby they deny and stonewall problems until they
are forced into admitting them. That's the lesson here.
The first "crash" happened years ago. Toyota has had plenty of time to
investigate. Instead they've used that time denying the problem exists.

The fear is that the problem will be revealed before a fix is in place
because if it is, sales will grind to a standstill. Clearly Toyota knew
there was a problem with the 2010 Prius brakes because they fixed it and
changed their assembly last month. At that time there were defective Prius
in dealer showrooms, distributor lots and on boats heading away from their
plants. By admitting the problem these cars would become unsalable until
repaired. Moreover, they had plenty of time to tell people there brakes
might not work in some situations but didn't do so. Frankly, I believe a
crime has been committed.

[David Z]

Post by Al Falfa

Post by David Z
With car recalls, ideally, the press should find out about the problem
when the recall is announced. The problem here, IMO, is that a culture
has evolved at Toyota whereby they deny and stonewall problems until they
are forced into admitting them. That's the lesson here.
The first "crash" happened years ago. Toyota has had plenty of time to
investigate. Instead they've used that time denying the problem exists.

The fear is that the problem will be revealed before a fix is in place
because if it is, sales will grind to a standstill. Clearly Toyota knew
there was a problem with the 2010 Prius brakes because they fixed it and
changed their assembly last month. At that time there were defective
Prius in dealer showrooms, distributor lots and on boats heading away from
their plants. By admitting the problem these cars would become unsalable
until repaired. Moreover, they had plenty of time to tell people there
brakes might not work in some situations but didn't do so. Frankly, I
believe a crime has been committed.

Yes, this is very disturbing. Toyota thought this braking problem was
important enough to change the assembly line cars, but no recall of
previously manufactured cars.

CNN reporter Jessica Yellin is a Prius owner and did a spot in the last
couple of days. She had previously contacted Toyota about this braking
problem and they told her that they were unaware of the problem and nobody
else had the problem as far as they knew. Yeah right.

That's why I say that the real problem at Toyota is the culture of denying
problems exist.

[fred]

Post by Al Falfa

Post by David Z
With car recalls, ideally, the press should find out about the
problem when the recall is announced. The problem here, IMO, is that
a culture has evolved at Toyota whereby they deny and stonewall
problems until they are forced into admitting them. That's the
lesson here.
The first "crash" happened years ago. Toyota has had plenty of time
to investigate. Instead they've used that time denying the problem
exists.

The fear is that the problem will be revealed before a fix is in place
because if it is, sales will grind to a standstill. Clearly Toyota
knew there was a problem with the 2010 Prius brakes because they fixed
it and changed their assembly last month. At that time there were
defective Prius in dealer showrooms, distributor lots and on boats
heading away from their plants. By admitting the problem these cars
would become unsalable until repaired. Moreover, they had plenty of
time to tell people there brakes might not work in some situations but
didn't do so. Frankly, I believe a crime has been committed.

And what *exactly* is the criminal offence you're referring to? idiots
that can't think clearly enough to know to shift that car into neutral
were given a drivers licence without cause in the less than 2 dozen
cases where something's actually happened?

[dbu'']

Post by David Z

Post by fred

Post by ransley

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by ransley

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
It should also be mentioned that if a person is intimidated by
their car and might be unable to follow these steps, they should
avoid driving the car until the repair is made, and either have
the car towed to the dealer, or have it driven there by someone
who would be able to control the car in case of a runaway
situation.
Having a scared person behind the wheel of an uncontrollable car
is the last thing that should be allowed to happen!

3 a bad idea, brakes are Hydraulic, powered by the motor, no motor,
no brakes, the motor has a rev limiter it wont blow. Now if you
said use the emergency brake that would give something, about 45%
brake power. But so what that he posts News, he posts facts, does
it hurt your feelings about toyota.

Not really. When they got big they were bound to have a fuck-up.
What pisses me off is the big deal the media is making out of it. NBC
spends 5 minutes a night about it with no useful information, just
Toyota bashing. Wow. That's news!
As far as putting the transmission in Neutral, that's what EVERYONE
is saying.
But, I suppose this is better...
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/ht_car_accident_091102_ssh.jpg

They are only being bashed because what seems like its dragging on and
they knew. The Prius thing where they fix the issue on the production
line but dont offer a fix is kinda low of toyota, they knew it was an
issue but hopped it would go away they could have called it a milage
issue to put the fix through without it making a big deal. You know
how news brodcasters-shows are, tomorrow there will be a new "story"
that will be headlines, an earthquake, a plane crash, something thats
better. But the impression I get is the CEO is delaying action, that
is whats making it a story, and worse for the long run, its not like
they cant afford a fix or dont have one, it like they dont want to.

No, the *problem* is the press wants a fix the day after they first report
it and Toyota is catering to their methods by responding to their constant
inane "is it fixed yet?". Look how long it takes for an airplane crash to
be investigated and the result reported to the press.

With car recalls, ideally, the press should find out about the problem when
the recall is announced. The problem here, IMO, is that a culture has
evolved at Toyota whereby they deny and stonewall problems until they are
forced into admitting them. That's the lesson here.
The first "crash" happened years ago. Toyota has had plenty of time to
investigate. Instead they've used that time denying the problem exists.

I do not believe anyone is "denying the problem". It takes time to
evaluate REAL problems, I hope you understand this. Toyota has
addressed the problem and IS taking corrective action. The numbers of
problems as opposed to the number of vehicles operating is
verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry small. In fact better than space, NASA
requirements. It's been blown, thanks the the current administration
and their beholden to unions, way out of proportion.
--

[C. E. White]

Post by dbu''

Post by David Z
The first "crash" happened years ago. Toyota has had plenty of time to
investigate. Instead they've used that time denying the problem exists.

I do not believe anyone is "denying the problem". It takes time to
evaluate REAL problems, I hope you understand this. Toyota has
addressed the problem and IS taking corrective action. The numbers of
problems as opposed to the number of vehicles operating is
verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry small. In fact better than space, NASA
requirements. It's been blown, thanks the the current administration
and their beholden to unions, way out of proportion.

You you really believe this? I agree the problem has been greatly
exaggerated by the press. However, apparently the problems are real. And
Toyota was warned about these problems at least 3 years ago. Instead of
investigating the problems, Toyota pulled their usual BS, denied the problem
and tried to shift blame (initially to the Customers, then suppliers).
Unfortunately this is standard operating procedure for Toyota. They have
tried to lie their way out of numerous defects (ball joints, frame,
suspensions, etc.). I just saw on CBS News that the CEO of Toyota is now
claiming that Customers are number 1 at Toyota. Maybe he means it this time,
but Toyota's history suggest what he really means is "our Customers are the
number 1 suckers and our number 1 goal is getting as much of their money as
we can."

Ed

[dbu'']

Post by C. E. White

Post by dbu''

Post by David Z
The first "crash" happened years ago. Toyota has had plenty of time to
investigate. Instead they've used that time denying the problem exists.

I do not believe anyone is "denying the problem". It takes time to
evaluate REAL problems, I hope you understand this. Toyota has
addressed the problem and IS taking corrective action. The numbers of
problems as opposed to the number of vehicles operating is
verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry small. In fact better than space, NASA
requirements. It's been blown, thanks the the current administration
and their beholden to unions, way out of proportion.

You you really believe this?

Yes!!

Post by C. E. White
I agree the problem has been greatly
exaggerated by the press.

Thankyou

Post by C. E. White
However, apparently the problems are real. And
Toyota was warned about these problems at least 3 years ago. Instead of
investigating the problems,

Are you privy to internal Toyota quality investigations?

Post by C. E. White
Toyota pulled their usual BS, denied the problem
and tried to shift blame (initially to the Customers, then suppliers).

Remember Audi and their acceleration problems?

Post by C. E. White
Unfortunately this is standard operating procedure for Toyota.

It is NOT SOP Toyota. Prove that remark!!

Post by C. E. White
They have
tried to lie their way out of numerous defects (ball joints, frame,
suspensions, etc.).

What!!! I never heard of these things you claim. Expand and post proof.

Post by C. E. White
I just saw on CBS News that the CEO of Toyota is now
claiming that Customers are number 1 at Toyota.

First hand experience I have had nothing but stellar customer experience
with my two Toyota vehicles. I WILL buy again Toyota.

Post by C. E. White
Maybe he means it this time,
but Toyota's history suggest what he really means is "our Customers are the
number 1 suckers and our number 1 goal is getting as much of their money as
we can."

In Japanese culture this is very humiliating. They will work very hard
to repair their reputation, unlike American car companies. I can tell
you about my experience with the "big three". I won't go back. Fool me
once shame on you, but fool me many times shame on me numerous times!!!

Post by C. E. White
Ed

--

[News]

Post by dbu''

Post by C. E. White

Post by dbu''

Post by David Z
The first "crash" happened years ago. Toyota has had plenty of time to
investigate. Instead they've used that time denying the problem exists.

I do not believe anyone is "denying the problem". It takes time to
evaluate REAL problems, I hope you understand this. Toyota has
addressed the problem and IS taking corrective action. The numbers of
problems as opposed to the number of vehicles operating is
verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry small. In fact better than space, NASA
requirements. It's been blown, thanks the the current administration
and their beholden to unions, way out of proportion.

You you really believe this?

Yes!!

Post by C. E. White
I agree the problem has been greatly
exaggerated by the press.

Thankyou

Post by C. E. White
However, apparently the problems are real. And
Toyota was warned about these problems at least 3 years ago. Instead of
investigating the problems,

Are you privy to internal Toyota quality investigations?

Post by C. E. White
Toyota pulled their usual BS, denied the problem
and tried to shift blame (initially to the Customers, then suppliers).

Remember Audi and their acceleration problems?

Post by C. E. White
Unfortunately this is standard operating procedure for Toyota.

It is NOT SOP Toyota. Prove that remark!!

Post by C. E. White
They have
tried to lie their way out of numerous defects (ball joints, frame,
suspensions, etc.).

What!!! I never heard of these things you claim. Expand and post proof.

Post by C. E. White
I just saw on CBS News that the CEO of Toyota is now
claiming that Customers are number 1 at Toyota.

First hand experience I have had nothing but stellar customer experience
with my two Toyota vehicles. I WILL buy again Toyota.

Post by C. E. White
Maybe he means it this time,
but Toyota's history suggest what he really means is "our Customers are the
number 1 suckers and our number 1 goal is getting as much of their money as
we can."

In Japanese culture this is very humiliating. They will work very hard
to repair their reputation, unlike American car companies. I can tell
you about my experience with the "big three". I won't go back. Fool me
once shame on you, but fool me many times shame on me numerous times!!!

Post by C. E. White
Ed

I'd like to think so.

Just a coincidence that Toyota hired a new Washington lobbying and PR
firm...

[dbu'']

Post by News

Post by dbu''

Post by C. E. White

Post by dbu''

Post by David Z
The first "crash" happened years ago. Toyota has had plenty of time to
investigate. Instead they've used that time denying the problem exists.

I do not believe anyone is "denying the problem". It takes time to
evaluate REAL problems, I hope you understand this. Toyota has
addressed the problem and IS taking corrective action. The numbers of
problems as opposed to the number of vehicles operating is
verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry small. In fact better than space, NASA
requirements. It's been blown, thanks the the current administration
and their beholden to unions, way out of proportion.

You you really believe this?

Yes!!

Post by C. E. White
I agree the problem has been greatly
exaggerated by the press.

Thankyou

Post by C. E. White
However, apparently the problems are real. And
Toyota was warned about these problems at least 3 years ago. Instead of
investigating the problems,

Are you privy to internal Toyota quality investigations?

Post by C. E. White
Toyota pulled their usual BS, denied the problem
and tried to shift blame (initially to the Customers, then suppliers).

Remember Audi and their acceleration problems?

Post by C. E. White
Unfortunately this is standard operating procedure for Toyota.

It is NOT SOP Toyota. Prove that remark!!

Post by C. E. White
They have
tried to lie their way out of numerous defects (ball joints, frame,
suspensions, etc.).

What!!! I never heard of these things you claim. Expand and post proof.

Post by C. E. White
I just saw on CBS News that the CEO of Toyota is now
claiming that Customers are number 1 at Toyota.

First hand experience I have had nothing but stellar customer experience
with my two Toyota vehicles. I WILL buy again Toyota.

Post by C. E. White
Maybe he means it this time,
but Toyota's history suggest what he really means is "our Customers are the
number 1 suckers and our number 1 goal is getting as much of their money as
we can."

In Japanese culture this is very humiliating. They will work very hard
to repair their reputation, unlike American car companies. I can tell
you about my experience with the "big three". I won't go back. Fool me
once shame on you, but fool me many times shame on me numerous times!!!

Post by C. E. White
Ed

I'd like to think so.
Just a coincidence that Toyota hired a new Washington lobbying and PR
firm...

In the American, quarter to quarter culture of business, that is what
one must do. Toyota WILL survive.
--

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by News

Post by dbu''

Post by C. E. White

Post by dbu''

Post by David Z
The first "crash" happened years ago. Toyota has had plenty of
time to investigate. Instead they've used that time denying the
problem exists.

I do not believe anyone is "denying the problem". It takes time to
evaluate REAL problems, I hope you understand this. Toyota has
addressed the problem and IS taking corrective action. The numbers
of problems as opposed to the number of vehicles operating is
verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry small. In fact better than space, NASA
requirements. It's been blown, thanks the the current
administration and their beholden to unions, way out of proportion.

You you really believe this?

Yes!!

Post by C. E. White
I agree the problem has been greatly
exaggerated by the press.

Thankyou

Post by C. E. White
However, apparently the problems are real. And Toyota was warned
about these problems at least 3 years ago. Instead of investigating
the problems,

Are you privy to internal Toyota quality investigations?

Post by C. E. White
Toyota pulled their usual BS, denied the problem and tried to shift
blame (initially to the Customers, then suppliers).

Remember Audi and their acceleration problems?

Post by C. E. White
Unfortunately this is standard operating procedure for Toyota.

It is NOT SOP Toyota. Prove that remark!!

Post by C. E. White
They have
tried to lie their way out of numerous defects (ball joints, frame,
suspensions, etc.).

What!!! I never heard of these things you claim. Expand and post proof.

Post by C. E. White
I just saw on CBS News that the CEO of Toyota is now claiming that
Customers are number 1 at Toyota.

First hand experience I have had nothing but stellar customer
experience with my two Toyota vehicles. I WILL buy again Toyota.

Post by C. E. White
Maybe he means it this time,
but Toyota's history suggest what he really means is "our Customers are the
number 1 suckers and our number 1 goal is getting as much of their money as
we can."

In Japanese culture this is very humiliating. They will work very
hard to repair their reputation, unlike American car companies. I can
tell you about my experience with the "big three". I won't go back.
Fool me once shame on you, but fool me many times shame on me numerous
times!!!

Post by C. E. White
Ed

I'd like to think so.
Just a coincidence that Toyota hired a new Washington lobbying and PR
firm...

In the American, quarter to quarter culture of business, that is what one
must do.

I'd close all NA plants and move manufacturing back to Japan...

[Vic Smith]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
I'd close all NA plants and move manufacturing back to Japan...

What, and then close the Japan plants?
They're recalling those too.
The ones with the "J" in the VIN.

--Vic

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
I'd close all NA plants and move manufacturing back to Japan...

What, and then close the Japan plants? They're recalling those too.
The ones with the "J" in the VIN.
--Vic

What models?

The Prius?

[Vic Smith]

or one. Hard to say what On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 23:13:50 -0500,

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
I'd close all NA plants and move manufacturing back to Japan...

What, and then close the Japan plants? They're recalling those too.
The ones with the "J" in the VIN.
--Vic

What models?
The Prius?

For one. Hard to say what the regulators do over there.
Foreign country.
Did find this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/business/global/04prius.html
"A catalyst for the government’s expanded role was a scandal in 2000
involving the cover-up of a string of defects by Mitsubishi Motors,
which almost drove the automaker out of business. The number of cars
affected by recalls in Japan have surged since then, jumping to 5.07
million in 2008 from 680,216 in 1998."

Looks like Japan isn't the place to hide from recalls.
Might be time to change your name to Horst and pick up a Mercedes.
Is that a "G" VIN?

--Vic

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

or one. Hard to say what On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 23:13:50 -0500, Hachiroku

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
I'd close all NA plants and move manufacturing back to Japan...

What, and then close the Japan plants? They're recalling those too. The
ones with the "J" in the VIN.
--Vic

What models?
The Prius?

For one. Hard to say what the regulators do over there. Foreign country.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/business/global/04prius.html "A catalyst
for the government’s expanded role was a scandal in 2000 involving the
cover-up of a string of defects by Mitsubishi Motors, which almost drove
the automaker out of business. The number of cars affected by recalls in
Japan have surged since then, jumping to 5.07 million in 2008 from 680,216
in 1998."
Looks like Japan isn't the place to hide from recalls. Might be time to
change your name to Horst and pick up a Mercedes. Is that a "G" VIN?
--Vic

Mitsubishi has made some BAD cars, and their line of large trucks have had
the most recalls.

That said, I'd still buy a 3000GT...

Germany is a "W" to indicate West Germany.
Eurpoean cars SUCK!!!!

[Steve Austin]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
Mitsubishi has made some BAD cars, and their line of large trucks have had
the most recalls.
That said, I'd still buy a 3000GT...

Good luck finding parts for a 3000GT.

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by Steve Austin

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
Mitsubishi has made some BAD cars, and their line of large trucks have
had the most recalls.
That said, I'd still buy a 3000GT...

Good luck finding parts for a 3000GT.

Shoot, good luck finding parts for an '88 Supra!

I got THE LAST A/T cooling line from a shelf of a dealer...

In JAPAN!

[News]

Post by dbu''

Post by News

Post by dbu''

Post by C. E. White

Post by dbu''

Post by David Z
The first "crash" happened years ago. Toyota has had plenty of time to
investigate. Instead they've used that time denying the problem exists.

I do not believe anyone is "denying the problem". It takes time to
evaluate REAL problems, I hope you understand this. Toyota has
addressed the problem and IS taking corrective action. The numbers of
problems as opposed to the number of vehicles operating is
verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry small. In fact better than space, NASA
requirements. It's been blown, thanks the the current administration
and their beholden to unions, way out of proportion.

You you really believe this?

Yes!!

Post by C. E. White
I agree the problem has been greatly
exaggerated by the press.

Thankyou

Post by C. E. White
However, apparently the problems are real. And
Toyota was warned about these problems at least 3 years ago. Instead of
investigating the problems,

Are you privy to internal Toyota quality investigations?

Post by C. E. White
Toyota pulled their usual BS, denied the problem
and tried to shift blame (initially to the Customers, then suppliers).

Remember Audi and their acceleration problems?

Post by C. E. White
Unfortunately this is standard operating procedure for Toyota.

It is NOT SOP Toyota. Prove that remark!!

Post by C. E. White
They have
tried to lie their way out of numerous defects (ball joints, frame,
suspensions, etc.).

What!!! I never heard of these things you claim. Expand and post proof.

Post by C. E. White
I just saw on CBS News that the CEO of Toyota is now
claiming that Customers are number 1 at Toyota.

First hand experience I have had nothing but stellar customer experience
with my two Toyota vehicles. I WILL buy again Toyota.

Post by C. E. White
Maybe he means it this time,
but Toyota's history suggest what he really means is "our Customers are the
number 1 suckers and our number 1 goal is getting as much of their money as
we can."

In Japanese culture this is very humiliating. They will work very hard
to repair their reputation, unlike American car companies. I can tell
you about my experience with the "big three". I won't go back. Fool me
once shame on you, but fool me many times shame on me numerous times!!!

Post by C. E. White
Ed

I'd like to think so.
Just a coincidence that Toyota hired a new Washington lobbying and PR
firm...

In the American, quarter to quarter culture of business, that is what
one must do. Toyota WILL survive.

What Toyota 'must do' is address the source(s) of the problem(s).

A new PR/lobbying firm won't help with that, but may help with the 'slow
walk' they've been issuing so far..

[Vic Smith]

Post by dbu''
In Japanese culture this is very humiliating. They will work very hard
to repair their reputation, unlike American car companies. I can tell
you about my experience with the "big three". I won't go back. Fool me
once shame on you, but fool me many times shame on me numerous times!!!

Let's not forget the kamikaze element of Japanese culture.
That's probably what the Lexus driver experienced.

--Vic

[dbu'']

Post by Vic Smith

Post by dbu''
In Japanese culture this is very humiliating. They will work very hard
to repair their reputation, unlike American car companies. I can tell
you about my experience with the "big three". I won't go back. Fool me
once shame on you, but fool me many times shame on me numerous times!!!

Let's not forget the kamikaze element of Japanese culture.
That's probably what the Lexus driver experienced.
--Vic

Remember the Audi?

I know you all American, live in the past freaks hate Toyota, because
they bested the great American dream, but face up, buck up, they, Toyota
has been and will be the premier auto mfg now and in the future. They
innovate and stick by their consumers. I am living proof. The big
three let me down numerous times, until the last time. Now I am not one
of their kling-on's. Color me gone.
--

[Vic Smith]

Post by dbu''

Post by Vic Smith

Post by dbu''
In Japanese culture this is very humiliating. They will work very hard
to repair their reputation, unlike American car companies. I can tell
you about my experience with the "big three". I won't go back. Fool me
once shame on you, but fool me many times shame on me numerous times!!!

Let's not forget the kamikaze element of Japanese culture.
That's probably what the Lexus driver experienced.
--Vic

Remember the Audi?
I know you all American, live in the past freaks hate Toyota, because
they bested the great American dream, but face up, buck up, they, Toyota
has been and will be the premier auto mfg now and in the future. They
innovate and stick by their consumers. I am living proof. The big
three let me down numerous times, until the last time. Now I am not one
of their kling-on's. Color me gone.

Whatever works for you, Trekkie.
BTW, much of same loyalty mentality once applied to GM.
Things change.

--Vic

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by Vic Smith

Post by dbu''

Post by dbu''
In Japanese culture this is very humiliating. They will work very
hard to repair their reputation, unlike American car companies. I can
tell you about my experience with the "big three". I won't go back.
Fool me once shame on you, but fool me many times shame on me numerous
times!!!

Let's not forget the kamikaze element of Japanese culture. That's
probably what the Lexus driver experienced.
--Vic

Remember the Audi?
I know you all American, live in the past freaks hate Toyota, because
they bested the great American dream, but face up, buck up, they, Toyota
has been and will be the premier auto mfg now and in the future. They
innovate and stick by their consumers. I am living proof. The big three
let me down numerous times, until the last time. Now I am not one of
their kling-on's. Color me gone.

Whatever works for you, Trekkie.
BTW, much of same loyalty mentality once applied to GM. Things change.
--Vic

If this were about 1970, I'd be talking about our Chevy II Nova...

[dbu'']

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by Vic Smith

Post by dbu''

Post by dbu''
In Japanese culture this is very humiliating. They will work very
hard to repair their reputation, unlike American car companies. I can
tell you about my experience with the "big three". I won't go back.
Fool me once shame on you, but fool me many times shame on me numerous
times!!!

Let's not forget the kamikaze element of Japanese culture. That's
probably what the Lexus driver experienced.
--Vic

Remember the Audi?
I know you all American, live in the past freaks hate Toyota, because
they bested the great American dream, but face up, buck up, they, Toyota
has been and will be the premier auto mfg now and in the future. They
innovate and stick by their consumers. I am living proof. The big three
let me down numerous times, until the last time. Now I am not one of
their kling-on's. Color me gone.

Whatever works for you, Trekkie.
BTW, much of same loyalty mentality once applied to GM. Things change.
--Vic

If this were about 1970, I'd be talking about our Chevy II Nova...

Or my 1971 Fury III 360cid which needed a valve job at 30 K miles. Or
my 1979 B200 which hesitated and numerous trips to the dealership with
no fix. I fixed it myself by carefully examining the carburetor and
finding a defective casting. Or my 1980 dodge omni which had two
clutches installed under warranty, the damn thing still shuddered, I got
rid of it. Or my dads brand new 1986 chev caprice which blew the tranny
on the way home from the dealers showroom and left them stalled on the
freeway. I could go on and on.

My 1989 Toyota camry was faultless, what a great automobile. My current
2004 Sienna I've owned for over six years, purchased Sept 03, has been
faultless, all I have to do is have the oil changed.

There is quite a contrast between my experiences with "big three" and
Toyota. I won't be going back there any time soon.
--

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by dbu''
There is quite a contrast between my experiences with "big three" and
Toyota. I won't be going back there any time soon.

Wait...won't be going to Toyota? One recall and you're scared off? ;)

People don't seem to understand, it's also how a car company treats you.

Any problems with my Toyota, new or used, that were cause by Toyota were
repaired by Toyota (of course, I won't be taking a Supra with 178,000
miles on it and saying "Fix the tranny!" Man's got to know his limitations!)

But other problems were taken car of, no trouble. No arguing. No nothing
except a repaired car that lasted for years.

People who odn't like rice need something to cry about when a Jap car
company shows it makes mistakes, albeit many times fewer than their
American counterparts.

Hey, Toyota! Welcome to the wonderful world of US made parts!

[David Z]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by dbu''
There is quite a contrast between my experiences with "big three" and
Toyota. I won't be going back there any time soon.

Wait...won't be going to Toyota? One recall and you're scared off? ;)
People don't seem to understand, it's also how a car company treats you.
Any problems with my Toyota, new or used, that were cause by Toyota were
repaired by Toyota (of course, I won't be taking a Supra with 178,000
miles on it and saying "Fix the tranny!" Man's got to know his
limitations!)
But other problems were taken car of, no trouble. No arguing. No nothing
except a repaired car that lasted for years.
People who odn't like rice need something to cry about when a Jap car
company shows it makes mistakes, albeit many times fewer than their
American counterparts.
Hey, Toyota! Welcome to the wonderful world of US made parts!

When it's time for a new car, I'll worry about it then. Will this episode
factor into my decision? Of course. Does it rule out another Toyota/Lexus?
No.

[dbu'']

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by dbu''
There is quite a contrast between my experiences with "big three" and
Toyota. I won't be going back there any time soon.

Wait...won't be going to Toyota? One recall and you're scared off? ;)
People don't seem to understand, it's also how a car company treats you.
Any problems with my Toyota, new or used, that were cause by Toyota were
repaired by Toyota (of course, I won't be taking a Supra with 178,000
miles on it and saying "Fix the tranny!" Man's got to know his limitations!)
But other problems were taken car of, no trouble. No arguing. No nothing
except a repaired car that lasted for years.
People who odn't like rice need something to cry about when a Jap car
company shows it makes mistakes, albeit many times fewer than their
American counterparts.
Hey, Toyota! Welcome to the wonderful world of US made parts!

I won't be going back to the big three anytime soon. My next vehicle,
new one will be a Toyota, maybe an RAV4 when we get down to one vehicle.
--

[David Z]

Post by dbu''

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by dbu''
There is quite a contrast between my experiences with "big three" and
Toyota. I won't be going back there any time soon.

Wait...won't be going to Toyota? One recall and you're scared off? ;)
People don't seem to understand, it's also how a car company treats you.
Any problems with my Toyota, new or used, that were cause by Toyota were
repaired by Toyota (of course, I won't be taking a Supra with 178,000
miles on it and saying "Fix the tranny!" Man's got to know his limitations!)
But other problems were taken car of, no trouble. No arguing. No nothing
except a repaired car that lasted for years.
People who odn't like rice need something to cry about when a Jap car
company shows it makes mistakes, albeit many times fewer than their
American counterparts.
Hey, Toyota! Welcome to the wonderful world of US made parts!

I won't be going back to the big three anytime soon. My next vehicle,
new one will be a Toyota, maybe an RAV4 when we get down to one vehicle.

Toyota's stumble is definitely a big opportunity for GM and Ford, in that
order. Competition is a good thing. As the GM commercial says, let the
best car win.

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by David Z

Post by dbu''

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by dbu''
There is quite a contrast between my experiences with "big three" and
Toyota. I won't be going back there any time soon.

Wait...won't be going to Toyota? One recall and you're scared off? ;)
People don't seem to understand, it's also how a car company treats you.
Any problems with my Toyota, new or used, that were cause by Toyota
were repaired by Toyota (of course, I won't be taking a Supra with
178,000 miles on it and saying "Fix the tranny!" Man's got to know his
limitations!)
But other problems were taken car of, no trouble. No arguing. No
nothing except a repaired car that lasted for years.
People who odn't like rice need something to cry about when a Jap car
company shows it makes mistakes, albeit many times fewer than their
American counterparts.
Hey, Toyota! Welcome to the wonderful world of US made parts!

I won't be going back to the big three anytime soon. My next vehicle,
new one will be a Toyota, maybe an RAV4 when we get down to one vehicle.

Toyota's stumble is definitely a big opportunity for GM and Ford, in that
order. Competition is a good thing. As the GM commercial says, let the
best car win.

I think Government Motors right now is an Also Ran.

Fords are hot now.

[Kevin]

Post by dbu''
Are you privy to internal Toyota quality investigations?

Apparently Dimitrios Biller was. Do a google search on his lawsuit
from last fall. Of course, he's a lawyer so his credibility could
come into question:)

Apparently he's not the only one who thinks that they are being less
than forthcoming with all of the information:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/31/cbsnews_investigates/main5278273.shtml

Post by dbu''

Post by C. E. White
Toyota pulled their usual BS, denied the problem
and tried to shift blame (initially to the Customers, then suppliers).

Remember Audi and their acceleration problems?

Post by C. E. White
Unfortunately this is standard operating procedure for Toyota.

It is NOT SOP Toyota. Prove that remark!!

Looks like that's exactly what is being attempted. Of course it'll
probably be a while before it all is settled.

[Mike Hunter]

(Cross postings deleted, automatically)

Perhaps, but if you check the public record you will discover Audis
"Problem" proved to be driver error, not a mechanical problem as in the
current case with Toyota.

Post by dbu''
Are you privy to internal Toyota quality investigations?

Apparently Dimitrios Biller was. Do a google search on his lawsuit
from last fall. Of course, he's a lawyer so his credibility could
come into question:)

Apparently he's not the only one who thinks that they are being less
than forthcoming with all of the information:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/31/cbsnews_investigates/main5278273.shtml

Post by dbu''

Post by C. E. White
Toyota pulled their usual BS, denied the problem
and tried to shift blame (initially to the Customers, then suppliers).

Remember Audi and their acceleration problems?

Post by C. E. White
Unfortunately this is standard operating procedure for Toyota.

It is NOT SOP Toyota. Prove that remark!!

Looks like that's exactly what is being attempted. Of course it'll
probably be a while before it all is settled.

[Thibaud Taudin Chabot]

Post by C. E. White

Post by dbu''

Post by David Z
The first "crash" happened years ago. Toyota has had plenty of time to
investigate. Instead they've used that time denying the problem exists.

I do not believe anyone is "denying the problem". It takes time to
evaluate REAL problems, I hope you understand this. Toyota has
addressed the problem and IS taking corrective action. The numbers of
problems as opposed to the number of vehicles operating is
verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry small. In fact better than space, NASA
requirements. It's been blown, thanks the the current administration
and their beholden to unions, way out of proportion.

You you really believe this? I agree the problem has been greatly
exaggerated by the press. However, apparently the problems are real. And
Toyota was warned about these problems at least 3 years ago. Instead of
investigating the problems, Toyota pulled their usual BS, denied the
problem and tried to shift blame (initially to the Customers, then
suppliers). Unfortunately this is standard operating procedure for
Toyota. They have tried to lie their way out of numerous defects (ball
joints, frame, suspensions, etc.). I just saw on CBS News that the CEO
of Toyota is now claiming that Customers are number 1 at Toyota. Maybe
he means it this time, but Toyota's history suggest what he really means
is "our Customers are the number 1 suckers and our number 1 goal is
getting as much of their money as we can."
Ed

then why are there so may of them on the road? There must be a reason
why all those customers buy a Toyota.

[David Z]

Post by dbu''

Post by David Z

Post by fred

Post by ransley

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by ransley

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
It should also be mentioned that if a person is intimidated by
their car and might be unable to follow these steps, they should
avoid driving the car until the repair is made, and either have
the car towed to the dealer, or have it driven there by someone
who would be able to control the car in case of a runaway
situation.
Having a scared person behind the wheel of an uncontrollable car
is the last thing that should be allowed to happen!

3 a bad idea, brakes are Hydraulic, powered by the motor, no motor,
no brakes, the motor has a rev limiter it wont blow. Now if you
said use the emergency brake that would give something, about 45%
brake power. But so what that he posts News, he posts facts, does
it hurt your feelings about toyota.

Not really. When they got big they were bound to have a fuck-up.
What pisses me off is the big deal the media is making out of it. NBC
spends 5 minutes a night about it with no useful information, just
Toyota bashing. Wow. That's news!
As far as putting the transmission in Neutral, that's what EVERYONE
is saying.
But, I suppose this is better...
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/ht_car_accident_091102_ssh.jpg

They are only being bashed because what seems like its dragging on and
they knew. The Prius thing where they fix the issue on the production
line but dont offer a fix is kinda low of toyota, they knew it was an
issue but hopped it would go away they could have called it a milage
issue to put the fix through without it making a big deal. You know
how news brodcasters-shows are, tomorrow there will be a new "story"
that will be headlines, an earthquake, a plane crash, something thats
better. But the impression I get is the CEO is delaying action, that
is whats making it a story, and worse for the long run, its not like
they cant afford a fix or dont have one, it like they dont want to.

No, the *problem* is the press wants a fix the day after they first report
it and Toyota is catering to their methods by responding to their constant
inane "is it fixed yet?". Look how long it takes for an airplane crash to
be investigated and the result reported to the press.

With car recalls, ideally, the press should find out about the problem when
the recall is announced. The problem here, IMO, is that a culture has
evolved at Toyota whereby they deny and stonewall problems until they are
forced into admitting them. That's the lesson here.
The first "crash" happened years ago. Toyota has had plenty of time to
investigate. Instead they've used that time denying the problem exists.

I do not believe anyone is "denying the problem". It takes time to
evaluate REAL problems, I hope you understand this. Toyota has
addressed the problem and IS taking corrective action. The numbers of
problems as opposed to the number of vehicles operating is
verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry small. In fact better than space, NASA
requirements. It's been blown, thanks the the current administration
and their beholden to unions, way out of proportion.

Sure, they're admitting these problems now. The question is why did they
deny these problems for so long?

They should have started addressing these problems when they first became
apparent years ago. It's their own fault that they're scrambling for a fix
on short notice. I don't think you can do a thorough job under these
circumstances.

Personally, I don't believe that the current recalls will suffice. I would
not at all be surprised if they eventually conclude that the unintended
acceleration problem is software or electrical.

[Al Falfa]

Post by dbu''
I do not believe anyone is "denying the problem". It takes time to
evaluate REAL problems, I hope you understand this. Toyota has
addressed the problem and IS taking corrective action. The numbers of
problems as opposed to the number of vehicles operating is
verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry small. In fact better than space, NASA
requirements. It's been blown, thanks the the current administration
and their beholden to unions, way out of proportion.
--

Not really. Toyota knew about the problem. They fixed the problem and
incorporated the fix into cars rolling off their assembly line. They did
all of this without telling those of us who own 2010s that our cars had this
problem. Criminal negligence arising out of unbridled corporate greed.

[brassplyer]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
With all the reports on Toyota's stuck accelerator problem, no one has
really said a lot about how to control the car if it does get away from
you.

There's always the Carrie Underwood method.

Throw your hands up in the air and "let Jesus take the wheel".

;-)

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Gee, "john', no response?

Sackless nimrod.