Toyota issued at least 3 Drive-by-Wires TSBs earlier for 2002-03 Camrys

[john]

This is getting interesting. There were engine surge problems from the
beginning of drive-by-wires that Toyota issued TSBs to fix. That was
unexpected engine surges between 38-42 MPH on light throttle input:

"Although Toyota says it knows of no electronic defects that would
cause a vehicle to surge out of control, it has issued at least three
technical service bulletins to its dealers warning of problems with
the new electronic throttles in the 2002 and 2003 Camry.

The throttle systems on six-cylinder engines can cause the vehicle to
"exhibit a surging during light throttle input at speeds between 38
mph and 42 mph," according to one of the bulletins that was published
by Alldata, a vehicle information company. The solution provided to
dealers was to reprogram the engine control module."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-throttle29-2009nov29,0,5254584.story

[fred]

Post by john
This is getting interesting. There were engine surge problems from the
beginning of drive-by-wires that Toyota issued TSBs to fix. That was
"Although Toyota says it knows of no electronic defects that would
cause a vehicle to surge out of control, it has issued at least three
technical service bulletins to its dealers warning of problems with
the new electronic throttles in the 2002 and 2003 Camry.
The throttle systems on six-cylinder engines can cause the vehicle to
"exhibit a surging during light throttle input at speeds between 38
mph and 42 mph," according to one of the bulletins that was published
by Alldata, a vehicle information company. The solution provided to
dealers was to reprogram the engine control module."
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-throttle29-2009nov29,0,52545
84.story

All to save money from doing it mechanically and give ABS. I wonder what
ECU programmers get per year. Not enough to get the good ones I'd hazard a
guess.

[Kevin John Putzke]

Post by john
This is getting interesting. There were engine surge problems from the
beginning of drive-by-wires that Toyota issued TSBs to fix. That was

If only you had the cash to purchase a Toyota. Too bad. Continue taking
public transportation. You are an IDIOT.

[Don Stauffer]

Post by john
This is getting interesting. There were engine surge problems from the
beginning of drive-by-wires that Toyota issued TSBs to fix. That was
"Although Toyota says it knows of no electronic defects that would
cause a vehicle to surge out of control, it has issued at least three
technical service bulletins to its dealers warning of problems with
the new electronic throttles in the 2002 and 2003 Camry.

I wonder if they consider software an electronic defect. If the computer
operating system allows multi-tasking, and if they use a lot of
conditional branching, it is possible to write software that cannot be
deterministically verified, only statistically. Aircraft flight control
software has developed deterministic rules for software. I wonder which
way the car computers are. I'll bet too that the car computers are not
redundant. Military aircraft are usually triple redundant, commercial
stuff quad redundant. Expensive.

I have a Prius so this is not just idle curiosity with me.

[Vic Smith]

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:17:33 -0600, Don Stauffer

Post by Don Stauffer

Post by john
This is getting interesting. There were engine surge problems from the
beginning of drive-by-wires that Toyota issued TSBs to fix. That was
"Although Toyota says it knows of no electronic defects that would
cause a vehicle to surge out of control, it has issued at least three
technical service bulletins to its dealers warning of problems with
the new electronic throttles in the 2002 and 2003 Camry.

I wonder if they consider software an electronic defect. If the computer
operating system allows multi-tasking, and if they use a lot of
conditional branching, it is possible to write software that cannot be
deterministically verified, only statistically. Aircraft flight control
software has developed deterministic rules for software. I wonder which
way the car computers are. I'll bet too that the car computers are not
redundant. Military aircraft are usually triple redundant, commercial
stuff quad redundant. Expensive.
I have a Prius so this is not just idle curiosity with me.

The whole idea is a loser to me. Mechanical linkages are well proven.
What about short circuits, bad tracings, etc?
(I know squat about electronics - except they sometimes fail.)
The programming part regarding safety is pretty much a no brainer, as
somebody mentioned - touching the brake always says shut down the
throttle.
But even that is subject to switching pulses and microscopic pathways.
I especially don't like the idea of the ignition switch being disabled
or bypassed.
To think that Murphy's law won't kill somebody is pretty arrogant.
KISS is always the best option where safety is concerned.
A TPS is perfectly adequate to tell the CPU what the foot is doing.
The foot should be in total control.
Putting this electronic junk in to avoid floorpan holes and some
linkage is no different than saving 20 cents per car on that Pinto
gas tank design if people end up dead.
Really sucks when Beta testing is being done at the risk of lives.
Haven't been following this closely, so I may have something wrong.
But I'll be sure to look for a mechanical throttle on my next car.
If that's not available, I better be able to shut down with a
key/switch. Otherwise I'll stick with older cars.

--Vic

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Post by Vic Smith
The whole idea is a loser to me. Mechanical linkages are well proven.
What about short circuits, bad tracings, etc?
(I know squat about electronics - except they sometimes fail.)
The programming part regarding safety is pretty much a no brainer, as
somebody mentioned - touching the brake always says shut down the
throttle.
But even that is subject to switching pulses and microscopic pathways.
I especially don't like the idea of the ignition switch being disabled
or bypassed.
To think that Murphy's law won't kill somebody is pretty arrogant.

Race cars have a mechanical shutoff switch for a reason. I agree.

[in2dadark]

Post by Vic Smith
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:17:33 -0600, Don Stauffer

Post by Don Stauffer

Post by john
This is getting interesting. There were engine surge problems from the
beginning of drive-by-wires that Toyota issued TSBs to fix. That was
"Although Toyota says it knows of no electronic defects that would
cause a vehicle to surge out of control, it has issued at least three
technical service bulletins to its dealers warning of problems with
the new electronic throttles in the 2002 and 2003 Camry.

I wonder if they consider software an electronic defect. If the computer
operating system allows multi-tasking, and if they use a lot of
conditional branching, it is possible to write software that cannot be
deterministically verified, only statistically.  Aircraft flight control
software has developed deterministic rules for software. I wonder which
way the car computers are.  I'll bet too that the car computers are not
redundant.  Military aircraft are usually  triple redundant, commercial
stuff quad redundant. Expensive.
I have a Prius so this is not just idle curiosity with me.

The whole idea is a loser to me.  Mechanical linkages are well proven.
What about short circuits, bad tracings, etc?
(I know squat about electronics - except they sometimes fail.)
The programming part regarding safety is pretty much a no brainer, as
somebody mentioned - touching the brake always says shut down the
throttle.
But even that is subject to switching pulses and microscopic pathways.
I especially don't like the idea of the ignition switch being disabled
or bypassed.
To think that Murphy's law won't kill somebody is pretty arrogant.
KISS is always the best option where safety is concerned.
A TPS is perfectly adequate to tell the CPU what the foot is doing.
The foot should be in total control.
Putting this electronic junk in to avoid floorpan holes and some
linkage is no different than saving 20 cents per car on that Pinto
gas tank design if people end up dead.
Really sucks when Beta testing is being done at the risk of lives.
Haven't been following this closely, so I may have something wrong.
But I'll be sure to look for a mechanical throttle on my next car.
If that's not available, I better be able to shut down with a
key/switch.  Otherwise I'll stick with older cars.
--Vic- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Not crazy about DBW either. They seem to be installing 'more' hazards
in cars instead of eliminating them. I wonder if the Kia forte is DBW..

[Mike Hunter]

The question should be it seems, what new vehicle on the market today does
NOT use FBW technology?

Post by Vic Smith
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:17:33 -0600, Don Stauffer

Post by Don Stauffer

Post by john
This is getting interesting. There were engine surge problems from the
beginning of drive-by-wires that Toyota issued TSBs to fix. That was
"Although Toyota says it knows of no electronic defects that would
cause a vehicle to surge out of control, it has issued at least three
technical service bulletins to its dealers warning of problems with
the new electronic throttles in the 2002 and 2003 Camry.

I wonder if they consider software an electronic defect. If the computer
operating system allows multi-tasking, and if they use a lot of
conditional branching, it is possible to write software that cannot be
deterministically verified, only statistically. Aircraft flight control
software has developed deterministic rules for software. I wonder which
way the car computers are. I'll bet too that the car computers are not
redundant. Military aircraft are usually triple redundant, commercial
stuff quad redundant. Expensive.
I have a Prius so this is not just idle curiosity with me.

The whole idea is a loser to me. Mechanical linkages are well proven.
What about short circuits, bad tracings, etc?
(I know squat about electronics - except they sometimes fail.)
The programming part regarding safety is pretty much a no brainer, as
somebody mentioned - touching the brake always says shut down the
throttle.
But even that is subject to switching pulses and microscopic pathways.
I especially don't like the idea of the ignition switch being disabled
or bypassed.
To think that Murphy's law won't kill somebody is pretty arrogant.
KISS is always the best option where safety is concerned.
A TPS is perfectly adequate to tell the CPU what the foot is doing.
The foot should be in total control.
Putting this electronic junk in to avoid floorpan holes and some
linkage is no different than saving 20 cents per car on that Pinto
gas tank design if people end up dead.
Really sucks when Beta testing is being done at the risk of lives.
Haven't been following this closely, so I may have something wrong.
But I'll be sure to look for a mechanical throttle on my next car.
If that's not available, I better be able to shut down with a
key/switch. Otherwise I'll stick with older cars.
--Vic- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Not crazy about DBW either. They seem to be installing 'more' hazards
in cars instead of eliminating them. I wonder if the Kia forte is DBW..

[Wayne]

Post by Mike Hunter
The question should be it seems, what new vehicle on the market today does
NOT use FBW technology?

Post by Vic Smith
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:17:33 -0600, Don Stauffer

Post by Don Stauffer

Post by john
This is getting interesting. There were engine surge problems from the
beginning of drive-by-wires that Toyota issued TSBs to fix. That was
"Although Toyota says it knows of no electronic defects that would
cause a vehicle to surge out of control, it has issued at least three
technical service bulletins to its dealers warning of problems with
the new electronic throttles in the 2002 and 2003 Camry.

I wonder if they consider software an electronic defect. If the computer
operating system allows multi-tasking, and if they use a lot of
conditional branching, it is possible to write software that cannot be
deterministically verified, only statistically. Aircraft flight control
software has developed deterministic rules for software. I wonder which
way the car computers are. I'll bet too that the car computers are not
redundant. Military aircraft are usually triple redundant, commercial
stuff quad redundant. Expensive.
I have a Prius so this is not just idle curiosity with me.

The whole idea is a loser to me. Mechanical linkages are well proven.
What about short circuits, bad tracings, etc?
(I know squat about electronics - except they sometimes fail.)
The programming part regarding safety is pretty much a no brainer, as
somebody mentioned - touching the brake always says shut down the
throttle.
But even that is subject to switching pulses and microscopic pathways.
I especially don't like the idea of the ignition switch being disabled
or bypassed.
To think that Murphy's law won't kill somebody is pretty arrogant.
KISS is always the best option where safety is concerned.
A TPS is perfectly adequate to tell the CPU what the foot is doing.
The foot should be in total control.
Putting this electronic junk in to avoid floorpan holes and some
linkage is no different than saving 20 cents per car on that Pinto
gas tank design if people end up dead.
Really sucks when Beta testing is being done at the risk of lives.
Haven't been following this closely, so I may have something wrong.
But I'll be sure to look for a mechanical throttle on my next car.
If that's not available, I better be able to shut down with a
key/switch. Otherwise I'll stick with older cars.
--Vic- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Not crazy about DBW either. They seem to be installing 'more' hazards
in cars instead of eliminating them. I wonder if the Kia forte is DBW..

The mechanical linkages also have problems. On one car, I had a rubber plug
come loose in the engine compartment, and wedge into the accelerator
linkage. On another car, the cable travel stopped before the accelerator
bottomed out. When pushing down hard, I popped the end off the cable, and
the cable was spring loaded to full throttle. YMMV.

[Mike Hunter]

WHAT, you were kidding, when you wrote, " When pushing down hard, I popped
the end off the cable, and the cable was spring loaded to FULL throttle."
right?

Post by Wayne

Post by Mike Hunter
The question should be it seems, what new vehicle on the market today
does NOT use FBW technology?

Post by Vic Smith
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:17:33 -0600, Don Stauffer

Post by Don Stauffer

Post by john
This is getting interesting. There were engine surge problems from the
beginning of drive-by-wires that Toyota issued TSBs to fix. That was
"Although Toyota says it knows of no electronic defects that would
cause a vehicle to surge out of control, it has issued at least three
technical service bulletins to its dealers warning of problems with
the new electronic throttles in the 2002 and 2003 Camry.

I wonder if they consider software an electronic defect. If the computer
operating system allows multi-tasking, and if they use a lot of
conditional branching, it is possible to write software that cannot be
deterministically verified, only statistically. Aircraft flight control
software has developed deterministic rules for software. I wonder which
way the car computers are. I'll bet too that the car computers are not
redundant. Military aircraft are usually triple redundant, commercial
stuff quad redundant. Expensive.
I have a Prius so this is not just idle curiosity with me.

The whole idea is a loser to me. Mechanical linkages are well proven.
What about short circuits, bad tracings, etc?
(I know squat about electronics - except they sometimes fail.)
The programming part regarding safety is pretty much a no brainer, as
somebody mentioned - touching the brake always says shut down the
throttle.
But even that is subject to switching pulses and microscopic pathways.
I especially don't like the idea of the ignition switch being disabled
or bypassed.
To think that Murphy's law won't kill somebody is pretty arrogant.
KISS is always the best option where safety is concerned.
A TPS is perfectly adequate to tell the CPU what the foot is doing.
The foot should be in total control.
Putting this electronic junk in to avoid floorpan holes and some
linkage is no different than saving 20 cents per car on that Pinto
gas tank design if people end up dead.
Really sucks when Beta testing is being done at the risk of lives.
Haven't been following this closely, so I may have something wrong.
But I'll be sure to look for a mechanical throttle on my next car.
If that's not available, I better be able to shut down with a
key/switch. Otherwise I'll stick with older cars.
--Vic- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Not crazy about DBW either. They seem to be installing 'more' hazards
in cars instead of eliminating them. I wonder if the Kia forte is DBW..

The mechanical linkages also have problems. On one car, I had a rubber
plug come loose in the engine compartment, and wedge into the accelerator
linkage. On another car, the cable travel stopped before the accelerator
bottomed out. When pushing down hard, I popped the end off the cable, and
the cable was spring loaded to full throttle. YMMV.

[Wayne]

Post by Mike Hunter
WHAT, you were kidding, when you wrote, " When pushing down hard, I popped
the end off the cable, and the cable was spring loaded to FULL throttle."
right?

-
Nope. A 69 vette being driven from the show room floor to my home. There
was a cheap-assed plastic ball on the end of the cable, with a pair of
fingers from the pedal mechanism hooked under the ball. A quite thrilling
ride trying to get the engine stopped.

Post by Mike Hunter

Post by Wayne

Post by Mike Hunter
The question should be it seems, what new vehicle on the market today
does NOT use FBW technology?

Post by Vic Smith
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:17:33 -0600, Don Stauffer

Post by Don Stauffer

Post by john
This is getting interesting. There were engine surge problems from the
beginning of drive-by-wires that Toyota issued TSBs to fix. That was
"Although Toyota says it knows of no electronic defects that would
cause a vehicle to surge out of control, it has issued at least three
technical service bulletins to its dealers warning of problems with
the new electronic throttles in the 2002 and 2003 Camry.

I wonder if they consider software an electronic defect. If the computer
operating system allows multi-tasking, and if they use a lot of
conditional branching, it is possible to write software that cannot be
deterministically verified, only statistically. Aircraft flight control
software has developed deterministic rules for software. I wonder which
way the car computers are. I'll bet too that the car computers are not
redundant. Military aircraft are usually triple redundant, commercial
stuff quad redundant. Expensive.
I have a Prius so this is not just idle curiosity with me.

The whole idea is a loser to me. Mechanical linkages are well proven.
What about short circuits, bad tracings, etc?
(I know squat about electronics - except they sometimes fail.)
The programming part regarding safety is pretty much a no brainer, as
somebody mentioned - touching the brake always says shut down the
throttle.
But even that is subject to switching pulses and microscopic pathways.
I especially don't like the idea of the ignition switch being disabled
or bypassed.
To think that Murphy's law won't kill somebody is pretty arrogant.
KISS is always the best option where safety is concerned.
A TPS is perfectly adequate to tell the CPU what the foot is doing.
The foot should be in total control.
Putting this electronic junk in to avoid floorpan holes and some
linkage is no different than saving 20 cents per car on that Pinto
gas tank design if people end up dead.
Really sucks when Beta testing is being done at the risk of lives.
Haven't been following this closely, so I may have something wrong.
But I'll be sure to look for a mechanical throttle on my next car.
If that's not available, I better be able to shut down with a
key/switch. Otherwise I'll stick with older cars.
--Vic- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Not crazy about DBW either. They seem to be installing 'more' hazards
in cars instead of eliminating them. I wonder if the Kia forte is DBW..

The mechanical linkages also have problems. On one car, I had a rubber
plug come loose in the engine compartment, and wedge into the accelerator
linkage. On another car, the cable travel stopped before the accelerator
bottomed out. When pushing down hard, I popped the end off the cable,
and the cable was spring loaded to full throttle. YMMV.

[Mike Hunter]

The CABLE was spring loaded to FULL throttle???? If the cable was torn
loose from the carburetor, as you say, how could it motivate the throttle
plate at all let alone to full open, when the throttle plate is weighted to
close??

Post by Wayne

Post by Mike Hunter
WHAT, you were kidding, when you wrote, " When pushing down hard, I
popped the end off the cable, and the cable was spring loaded to FULL
throttle." right?

-
Nope. A 69 vette being driven from the show room floor to my home. There
was a cheap-assed plastic ball on the end of the cable, with a pair of
fingers from the pedal mechanism hooked under the ball. A quite thrilling
ride trying to get the engine stopped.

Post by Mike Hunter

Post by Wayne

Post by Mike Hunter
The question should be it seems, what new vehicle on the market today
does NOT use FBW technology?

Post by Vic Smith
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:17:33 -0600, Don Stauffer

Post by Don Stauffer

Post by john
This is getting interesting. There were engine surge problems from the
beginning of drive-by-wires that Toyota issued TSBs to fix. That was
"Although Toyota says it knows of no electronic defects that would
cause a vehicle to surge out of control, it has issued at least three
technical service bulletins to its dealers warning of problems with
the new electronic throttles in the 2002 and 2003 Camry.

I wonder if they consider software an electronic defect. If the computer
operating system allows multi-tasking, and if they use a lot of
conditional branching, it is possible to write software that cannot be
deterministically verified, only statistically. Aircraft flight control
software has developed deterministic rules for software. I wonder which
way the car computers are. I'll bet too that the car computers are not
redundant. Military aircraft are usually triple redundant, commercial
stuff quad redundant. Expensive.
I have a Prius so this is not just idle curiosity with me.

The whole idea is a loser to me. Mechanical linkages are well proven.
What about short circuits, bad tracings, etc?
(I know squat about electronics - except they sometimes fail.)
The programming part regarding safety is pretty much a no brainer, as
somebody mentioned - touching the brake always says shut down the
throttle.
But even that is subject to switching pulses and microscopic pathways.
I especially don't like the idea of the ignition switch being disabled
or bypassed.
To think that Murphy's law won't kill somebody is pretty arrogant.
KISS is always the best option where safety is concerned.
A TPS is perfectly adequate to tell the CPU what the foot is doing.
The foot should be in total control.
Putting this electronic junk in to avoid floorpan holes and some
linkage is no different than saving 20 cents per car on that Pinto
gas tank design if people end up dead.
Really sucks when Beta testing is being done at the risk of lives.
Haven't been following this closely, so I may have something wrong.
But I'll be sure to look for a mechanical throttle on my next car.
If that's not available, I better be able to shut down with a
key/switch. Otherwise I'll stick with older cars.
--Vic- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Not crazy about DBW either. They seem to be installing 'more' hazards
in cars instead of eliminating them. I wonder if the Kia forte is DBW..

The mechanical linkages also have problems. On one car, I had a rubber
plug come loose in the engine compartment, and wedge into the
accelerator linkage. On another car, the cable travel stopped before
the accelerator bottomed out. When pushing down hard, I popped the end
off the cable, and the cable was spring loaded to full throttle. YMMV.

[dsi1]

Post by Wayne

Post by Mike Hunter
WHAT, you were kidding, when you wrote, " When pushing down hard, I popped
the end off the cable, and the cable was spring loaded to FULL throttle."
right?

-
Nope. A 69 vette being driven from the show room floor to my home. There
was a cheap-assed plastic ball on the end of the cable, with a pair of
fingers from the pedal mechanism hooked under the ball. A quite thrilling
ride trying to get the engine stopped.

What he's saying is that carburetors have their throttles spring-loaded
so that when you release the foot pressure on the accelerator, the
throttle will close - a desirable mode of operation. I have to concur
with small detail. Could you have been missing the throttle return
spring? :-)

[Nate Nagel]

Post by dsi1

Post by Wayne

Post by Mike Hunter
WHAT, you were kidding, when you wrote, " When pushing down hard, I
popped the end off the cable, and the cable was spring loaded to FULL
throttle." right?

-
Nope. A 69 vette being driven from the show room floor to my home.
There was a cheap-assed plastic ball on the end of the cable, with a
pair of fingers from the pedal mechanism hooked under the ball. A
quite thrilling ride trying to get the engine stopped.

What he's saying is that carburetors have their throttles spring-loaded
so that when you release the foot pressure on the accelerator, the
throttle will close - a desirable mode of operation. I have to concur
with small detail. Could you have been missing the throttle return
spring? :-)

ISTR that some carbs did not have integral throttle return springs, so
that if the return spring were hooked to the linkage and not to the carb
itself, and the linkage fell off the carb, that the engine's
vacuum/airflow would pull the throttle plates open.

I agree that installing a spring within the carb itself to keep the
throttle plates shut, or at least hooking the return spring to the
carb's bellcrank and not the linkage attached to it, is quite a Good
Thing(tm)

nate

[dsi1]

Post by Nate Nagel

Post by dsi1

Post by Wayne

Post by Mike Hunter
WHAT, you were kidding, when you wrote, " When pushing down hard, I
popped the end off the cable, and the cable was spring loaded to
FULL throttle." right?

-
Nope. A 69 vette being driven from the show room floor to my home.
There was a cheap-assed plastic ball on the end of the cable, with a
pair of fingers from the pedal mechanism hooked under the ball. A
quite thrilling ride trying to get the engine stopped.

What he's saying is that carburetors have their throttles
spring-loaded so that when you release the foot pressure on the
accelerator, the throttle will close - a desirable mode of operation.
I have to concur with small detail. Could you have been missing the
throttle return spring? :-)

ISTR that some carbs did not have integral throttle return springs, so
that if the return spring were hooked to the linkage and not to the carb
itself, and the linkage fell off the carb, that the engine's
vacuum/airflow would pull the throttle plates open.

I did not know this - all the ones I've owned had this feature. I guess
this was before my time. Thanks!

Post by Nate Nagel
I agree that installing a spring within the carb itself to keep the
throttle plates shut, or at least hooking the return spring to the
carb's bellcrank and not the linkage attached to it, is quite a Good
Thing(tm)
nate

[Kevin]

Post by dsi1

Post by Nate Nagel

Post by dsi1

Post by Wayne

Post by Mike Hunter
WHAT, you were kidding, when you wrote, " When pushing down hard,
I popped the end off the cable, and the cable was spring loaded to
FULL throttle." right?

-
Nope. A 69 vette being driven from the show room floor to my home.
There was a cheap-assed plastic ball on the end of the cable, with
a pair of fingers from the pedal mechanism hooked under the ball.
A quite thrilling ride trying to get the engine stopped.

What he's saying is that carburetors have their throttles
spring-loaded so that when you release the foot pressure on the
accelerator, the throttle will close - a desirable mode of
operation. I have to concur with small detail. Could you have been
missing the throttle return spring? :-)

ISTR that some carbs did not have integral throttle return springs,
so that if the return spring were hooked to the linkage and not to
the carb itself, and the linkage fell off the carb, that the engine's
vacuum/airflow would pull the throttle plates open.

I did not know this - all the ones I've owned had this feature. I
guess this was before my time. Thanks!

Post by Nate Nagel
I agree that installing a spring within the carb itself to keep the
throttle plates shut, or at least hooking the return spring to the
carb's bellcrank and not the linkage attached to it, is quite a Good
Thing(tm)
nate

A 69 vett would have had a holly vaccume sec. carb so if the air flow
as enough to open the secondarys then the carb could have possibly had
enough flow to keep the secondarys open against the natural closeing
action of the primarys I suppose. I have never tried it but possible
maby. KB

[C. E. White]

Post by Vic Smith
The whole idea is a loser to me. Mechanical linkages are well
proven.

In my life I've only had two times when a throttle stuck open, in both
cases it was for vehicles with well proven mechanical linkages.

Ed

[Mike Hunter]

Those were engines with carburetors, right.

Post by C. E. White

Post by Vic Smith
The whole idea is a loser to me. Mechanical linkages are well proven.

In my life I've only had two times when a throttle stuck open, in both
cases it was for vehicles with well proven mechanical linkages.
Ed

[s***@some.domain]

Post by C. E. White

Post by Vic Smith
The whole idea is a loser to me. Mechanical linkages are well proven.

In my life I've only had two times when a throttle stuck open, in both
cases it was for vehicles with well proven mechanical linkages.
Ed

it's an easy to get situation on poorly maintained motorcycles. since the
ignition switxhes can be in awkward places, you learn to gear change a
flareout to shut off. or you add a simple kill switch.
kill switches on cars are a good idea also good for anti theft. it ain't
rocket science either.

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by john
This is getting interesting. There were engine surge problems from the
beginning of drive-by-wires that Toyota issued TSBs to fix

I have a drive-by-wire Scion with the Camry engine. No TSBs. Find one for
me.

[C. E. White]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by john
This is getting interesting. There were engine surge problems from the
beginning of drive-by-wires that Toyota issued TSBs to fix

I have a drive-by-wire Scion with the Camry engine. No TSBs. Find one for
me.

What year is your Scion? NHTSA list 33 TSBs for a 2005 tC. Only one
seems even slightly related to reprogramming the engine controller -

Make / Models : Model/Build Years:
TOYOTA / SCION TC 2005-2008
TOYOTA / SCION XA 2004-2008
TOYOTA / SCION XB 2004-2008
TOYOTA / XD 2008

Service Bulletin Number : 00307
NHTSA Item Number : 10022144
Summary Description :
TECHSTREAM ECU FLASH REPROGRAMMING PROCEDURE. *KB

Unfortunately NHTSA doesn't give you the text of the TSB for free.
Also, the NHTSA list often includes special serivce messages in he
list. These are not traditional TSBs but are broadcst messages.
Manufacturers are required to notifiy NHTSA of any safety related
service bulletins. US manaufacturers usually send NHTSA all service
meassges, even very mundane ones. In the past Toyota was more
selective, although after looking through the lsit of Scion TSBs
listed by NHTSA, it appears they are being less selective now. If you
really want to know if the TSB in the NHTSA list affects your car, you
can always pay for access to the Toyota Service Information System.
Daily access is available for a very reasonable fee.

I also looked in the NHTSA defect investigation database., The only
defect investigation open againt a Scion tC was related to the
sunroof.

In my opinion, the pot stirring regarding fly by wire systems is comig
from two soruces, ignorant fear mongering and trial lawer Customer
developement activities.

Ed