2002 IS300 drivetrain popping

[goonie12]

Hi,

I'm on the verge of buying a 2002 IS300 and took it for a test drive a
couple of days ago. I noticed a muffled thunk or click when I started
from a dead stop ( at a traffic light or stop sign or whenever I
started the car from ) after putting the car into 1st gear. I'm not
sure if I heard it between the higher gears.

The previous owner never noticed it. I took the car in for a pre-
purchase inspection at the same auto shop that has been looking after
the car for the past 2/3 years. When I pointed it out to the mechanic
on a test drive he noticed it and first explained it as having to do
with the fact that it is a rear-wheel drive and the long travel of the
drive shaft causes this etc.

When I persisted with my questions about whether this was normal, he
kept saying that it didn't bother him and that it is expected. He
didn't seem to have ever noticed this problem on any car before. I was
surprised as he has worked on Lexus and Toyotas for 18 years and when
I mentioned this, he said that it didn't register in his mind as a
problem and so he never really noticed it.

When he put the car up on the left and gently rocked the rear wheels
back and forth we could see the long metal axle (?) or rod that
connects to the parts before they go on to the rear wheel had some
play and made a slight clicking noise. I asked him if he could expect
this in a brand new IS300 and he didn't seem sure.

I am more than a little concerned as this the first car that I am
going to spend over $15000. (the asking price is $16300); concerned
enough to consider getting a second opinion if the current owner will
allow it.

Have any of you noticed or are aware of this problem or even if it is
a problem at all?

It just seems to me that a car of the quality of a Lexus should have
click and pops like this.

I'd really appreciate any input. Thanks in advance!

The car: 2002 IS300
5 speed manual transmission
70K miles
Otherwise excellent overall condition
Current owner seems to have maintained it very well

goonie12

[Mark Klebanoff]

One thing it could be is either the anti-lock brakes or traction
control. If it seems to be coming from the right frong wheel, it's
normal.

Post by goonie12
Hi,
I'm on the verge of buying a 2002 IS300 and took it for a test drive a
couple of days ago. I noticed a muffled thunk or click when I started
from a dead stop ( at a traffic light or stop sign or whenever I
started the car from ) after putting the car into 1st gear. I'm not
sure if I heard it between the higher gears.
The previous owner never noticed it. I took the car in for a pre-
purchase inspection at the same auto shop that has been looking after
the car for the past 2/3 years. When I pointed it out to the mechanic
on a test drive he noticed it and first explained it as having to do
with the fact that it is a rear-wheel drive and the long travel of the
drive shaft causes this etc.
When I persisted with my questions about whether this was normal, he
kept saying that it didn't bother him and that it is expected. He
didn't seem to have ever noticed this problem on any car before. I was
surprised as he has worked on Lexus and Toyotas for 18 years and when
I mentioned this, he said that it didn't register in his mind as a
problem and so he never really noticed it.
When he put the car up on the left and gently rocked the rear wheels
back and forth we could see the long metal axle (?) or rod that
connects to the parts before they go on to the rear wheel had some
play and made a slight clicking noise. I asked him if he could expect
this in a brand new IS300 and he didn't seem sure.
I am more than a little concerned as this the first car that I am
going to spend over $15000. (the asking price is $16300); concerned
enough to consider getting a second opinion if the current owner will
allow it.
Have any of you noticed or are aware of this problem or even if it is
a problem at all?
It just seems to me that a car of the quality of a Lexus should have
click and pops like this.
I'd really appreciate any input. Thanks in advance!
The car: 2002 IS300
5 speed manual transmission
70K miles
Otherwise excellent overall condition
Current owner seems to have maintained it very well
goonie12

--

[Ray O]

Post by goonie12
Hi,
I'm on the verge of buying a 2002 IS300 and took it for a test drive a
couple of days ago. I noticed a muffled thunk or click when I started
from a dead stop ( at a traffic light or stop sign or whenever I
started the car from ) after putting the car into 1st gear. I'm not
sure if I heard it between the higher gears.
The previous owner never noticed it. I took the car in for a pre-
purchase inspection at the same auto shop that has been looking after
the car for the past 2/3 years. When I pointed it out to the mechanic
on a test drive he noticed it and first explained it as having to do
with the fact that it is a rear-wheel drive and the long travel of the
drive shaft causes this etc.
When I persisted with my questions about whether this was normal, he
kept saying that it didn't bother him and that it is expected. He
didn't seem to have ever noticed this problem on any car before. I was
surprised as he has worked on Lexus and Toyotas for 18 years and when
I mentioned this, he said that it didn't register in his mind as a
problem and so he never really noticed it.

One of the advantages of a dealership's service department is that they are
current on factory training, something that is not offered to non-franchised
service operations.

Post by goonie12
When he put the car up on the left and gently rocked the rear wheels
back and forth we could see the long metal axle (?) or rod that
connects to the parts before they go on to the rear wheel had some
play and made a slight clicking noise. I asked him if he could expect
this in a brand new IS300 and he didn't seem sure.

It is difficult, if not impossible, to diagnose a noise without actually
hearing it. The rear axle on a rear wheel drive is connected to the
transmission by a driveshaft. At each end of the driveshaft are universal
joints that allow veretical movement of the rear axle. A little free-play
is normal, and there should be a factory specification in the factory
service manual for how much is acceptable. If the universal joint is too
tight, the vehicle can shudder at takeoff.

At 70,000 miles, it is unlikely that the U-joint is bad, unless the car was
really driven hard.

Post by goonie12
I am more than a little concerned as this the first car that I am
going to spend over $15000. (the asking price is $16300); concerned
enough to consider getting a second opinion if the current owner will
allow it.
Have any of you noticed or are aware of this problem or even if it is
a problem at all?
It just seems to me that a car of the quality of a Lexus should have
click and pops like this.
I'd really appreciate any input. Thanks in advance!
The car: 2002 IS300
5 speed manual transmission
70K miles
Otherwise excellent overall condition
Current owner seems to have maintained it very well
goonie12

Another possible source of metallic popping or clicking noise is aftermarket
brake pads. If the backing is smaller than the factory spec, they can shift
up and down, and when the backing contacts the edge of the caliper, you get
a noise.

[goonie12]

Post by Ray O

Post by goonie12
Hi,
I'm on the verge of buying a 2002 IS300 and took it for a test drive a
couple of days ago. I noticed a muffled thunk or click when I started
from a dead stop ( at a traffic light or stop sign or whenever I
started the car from ) after putting the car into 1st gear. I'm not
sure if I heard it between the higher gears.
The previous owner never noticed it. I took the car in for a pre-
purchase inspection at the same auto shop that has been looking after
the car for the past 2/3 years. When I pointed it out to the mechanic
on a test drive he noticed it and first explained it as having to do
with the fact that it is a rear-wheel drive and the long travel of the
drive shaft causes this etc.
When I persisted with my questions about whether this was normal, he
kept saying that it didn't bother him and that it is expected. He
didn't seem to have ever noticed this problem on any car before. I was
surprised as he has worked on Lexus and Toyotas for 18 years and when
I mentioned this, he said that it didn't register in his mind as a
problem and so he never really noticed it.

One of the advantages of a dealership's service department is that they are
current on factory training, something that is not offered to non-franchised
service operations.

Post by goonie12
When he put the car up on the left and gently rocked the rear wheels
back and forth we could see the long metal axle (?) or rod that
connects to the parts before they go on to the rear wheel had some
play and made a slight clicking noise. I asked him if he could expect
this in a brand new IS300 and he didn't seem sure.

It is difficult, if not impossible, to diagnose a noise without actually
hearing it. The rear axle on a rear wheel drive is connected to the
transmission by a driveshaft. At each end of the driveshaft are universal
joints that allow veretical movement of the rear axle. A little free-play
is normal, and there should be a factory specification in the factory
service manual for how much is acceptable. If the universal joint is too
tight, the vehicle can shudder at takeoff.
At 70,000 miles, it is unlikely that the U-joint is bad, unless the car was
really driven hard.

Post by goonie12
I am more than a little concerned as this the first car that I am
going to spend over $15000. (the asking price is $16300); concerned
enough to consider getting a second opinion if the current owner will
allow it.
Have any of you noticed or are aware of this problem or even if it is
a problem at all?
It just seems to me that a car of the quality of a Lexus should have
click and pops like this.
I'd really appreciate any input. Thanks in advance!
The car: 2002 IS300

Thanks Mark and Ray for your comments! I am pretty sure it is not the
brakes. As I mentioned when you rock the rear wheels gently back and
forth you can see the play in the place where the long metal rod meets
a junction near the rear wheels.


______________

|-----------------------|

|-----------------------|
|
_____________|

|

|

____
=============================#===== |____|

CLICK

|

|

|-----------------------|

|-----------------------|
|
_____________|

Here is a little diagram of the shaft and rear wheels. The clicking
and play is most certainly coming from the spot where I've written
"CLICK" and marked at the joint with the "#" mark. I stood under the
car and hear it. I'm almost positive it is not the brake calipers.


Praveen

PS: How do I set my account such that it doesn't display my email
address? 8)

Post by Ray O

Post by goonie12
5 speed manual transmission
70K miles
Otherwise excellent overall condition
Current owner seems to have maintained it very well
goonie12

Another possible source of metallic popping or clicking noise is aftermarket
brake pads. If the backing is smaller than the factory spec, they can shift
up and down, and when the backing contacts the edge of the caliper, you get
a noise.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

[goonie12]

______________
|-----------------------|
|-----------------------|
|_____________|
|
|
____
==============#===== |____|
CLICK
|
|
______________
|-----------------------|
|-----------------------|
|_____________|

[goonie12]

Post by goonie12
______________
|-----------------------|
|-----------------------|
|_____________|
|
|
____
==============#===== |____|
CLICK
|
|
______________
|-----------------------|
|-----------------------|
|_____________|

I put up the diagram again as the previous one got messed up. I also
made a typo in my first post. I meant that when he put the car up on
the lift to look under it, we saw the play and clicking in the
driveshaft that comes from the front to the rear and connects to a
joint near the rear wheels.

As I mentioned, the sound and play is positively noticeable in the
area in the diagram with the "#" sign and CLICK written.

Thanks again for your comments! What do you think?

Praveen

[Ray O]

Post by goonie12

Post by goonie12
______________
|-----------------------|
|-----------------------|
|_____________|
|
|
____
==============#===== |____|
CLICK
|
|
______________
|-----------------------|
|-----------------------|
|_____________|

I put up the diagram again as the previous one got messed up. I also
made a typo in my first post. I meant that when he put the car up on
the lift to look under it, we saw the play and clicking in the
driveshaft that comes from the front to the rear and connects to a
joint near the rear wheels.
As I mentioned, the sound and play is positively noticeable in the
area in the diagram with the "#" sign and CLICK written.
Thanks again for your comments! What do you think?
Praveen

I think you are much better at ASCII art than I'll ever be!

You asked in another post how you hide your e-mail address. I do not
consider myself to be a computer expert by any stretch of the imagination
but if you want to make it less obvious on the return address and you are
using Outlook Express, go to the tools menu, then newsgroups, then click on
the appropriate account, and fix your return address. Computer geeks will
say that Outlook Express is bad and should not be used for reasons that are
beyond my comprehension. I personally am willing to barter knowledge - I
fix my computer geek friends' cars, and they make my computer work.

Back to your car question - your artwork indicates that it is the rear
universal joint that is making the noise. As I mentioned before, some noise
is OK, too much or too little is bad.

[goonie12]

Post by Ray O
Back to your car question - your artwork indicates that it is the rear
universal joint that is making the noise. As I mentioned before, some noise
is OK, too much or too little is bad.

Thanks Ray! Actually, when I reread your reply, you did answer to the
point what the problem might be. It is most probably due to the play
in the universal joint nearer the rear wheels. As you mentioned, too
little or too much is a bad thing. I convinced the owner this morning
to let me take the car to another auto shop for a second opinion. So,
Friday morning is when I get the inspection again. I don't mind
spending the $70-$80 again. I just wish they had allowed me to take
the car there in the first place.

I don't post using Outlook. I just post on the website directly and so
I guess I can't hide my address. The email address is contaminated
with junk mail already and so it's too late anyway :-)

I use Outlook for my work email and I don't really like it but I'm not
really a geek and I can't articulate why I dislike it beyond the fact
that it is slow and the options for searching your email messages for
stuff are primitive.

Praveen

Post by Ray O
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

[goonie12]

Post by goonie12

Post by Ray O
Back to your car question - your artwork indicates that it is the rear
universal joint that is making the noise. As I mentioned before, some noise
is OK, too much or too little is bad.

Thanks Ray! Actually, when I reread your reply, you did answer to the
point what the problem might be. It is most probably due to the play
in the universal joint nearer the rear wheels. As you mentioned, too
little or too much is a bad thing. I convinced the owner this morning
to let me take the car to another auto shop for a second opinion. So,
Friday morning is when I get the inspection again. I don't mind
spending the $70-$80 again. I just wish they had allowed me to take
the car there in the first place.
I don't post using Outlook. I just post on the website directly and so
I guess I can't hide my address. The email address is contaminated
with junk mail already and so it's too late anyway :-)
I use Outlook for my work email and I don't really like it but I'm not
really a geek and I can't articulate why I dislike it beyond the fact
that it is slow and the options for searching your email messages for
stuff are primitive.
Praveen

Post by Ray O
--

Also, if the play is too much, what needs to be fixed/replaced? Is it
an expensive job?

Thanks!

Post by goonie12

Post by Ray O
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

[Ray O]

Post by goonie12

Post by goonie12

Post by Ray O
Back to your car question - your artwork indicates that it is the rear
universal joint that is making the noise. As I mentioned before, some noise
is OK, too much or too little is bad.

Thanks Ray! Actually, when I reread your reply, you did answer to the
point what the problem might be. It is most probably due to the play
in the universal joint nearer the rear wheels. As you mentioned, too
little or too much is a bad thing. I convinced the owner this morning
to let me take the car to another auto shop for a second opinion. So,
Friday morning is when I get the inspection again. I don't mind
spending the $70-$80 again. I just wish they had allowed me to take
the car there in the first place.
I don't post using Outlook. I just post on the website directly and so
I guess I can't hide my address. The email address is contaminated
with junk mail already and so it's too late anyway :-)
I use Outlook for my work email and I don't really like it but I'm not
really a geek and I can't articulate why I dislike it beyond the fact
that it is slow and the options for searching your email messages for
stuff are primitive.
Praveen

Post by Ray O
--

Also, if the play is too much, what needs to be fixed/replaced? Is it
an expensive job?
Thanks!

If the play is too much, the driveshaft needs replacement. I've never
priced a driveshaft replacement, but I would imagine that it costs $500 or
so at a Lexus dealer.

Check the powertrain warranty on the car. If it has the same 72 month,
70,000 warranty as current models have, it may still be covered by the
powertrain warranty.

[goonie12]

Post by Ray O

Post by goonie12

Post by goonie12

Post by Ray O
Back to your car question - your artwork indicates that it is the rear
universal joint that is making the noise. As I mentioned before, some noise
is OK, too much or too little is bad.

Thanks Ray! Actually, when I reread your reply, you did answer to the
point what the problem might be. It is most probably due to the play
in the universal joint nearer the rear wheels. As you mentioned, too
little or too much is a bad thing. I convinced the owner this morning
to let me take the car to another auto shop for a second opinion. So,
Friday morning is when I get the inspection again. I don't mind
spending the $70-$80 again. I just wish they had allowed me to take
the car there in the first place.
I don't post using Outlook. I just post on the website directly and so
I guess I can't hide my address. The email address is contaminated
with junk mail already and so it's too late anyway :-)
I use Outlook for my work email and I don't really like it but I'm not
really a geek and I can't articulate why I dislike it beyond the fact
that it is slow and the options for searching your email messages for
stuff are primitive.
Praveen

Post by Ray O
--

Also, if the play is too much, what needs to be fixed/replaced? Is it
an expensive job?
Thanks!

If the play is too much, the driveshaft needs replacement. I've never
priced a driveshaft replacement, but I would imagine that it costs $500 or
so at a Lexus dealer.
Check the powertrain warranty on the car. If it has the same 72 month,
70,000 warranty as current models have, it may still be covered by the
powertrain warranty.
--

Wow! And $500 is parts+labor? The car has just covered 70K miles. SO
it looks like I've lucked out big time if it does require
replacement. :-(

Post by Ray O
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

[Ray O]

"goonie12" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:***@30g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
<snipped>

Post by goonie12

Post by Ray O

Post by goonie12

--

Also, if the play is too much, what needs to be fixed/replaced? Is it
an expensive job?
Thanks!

If the play is too much, the driveshaft needs replacement. I've never
priced a driveshaft replacement, but I would imagine that it costs $500 or
so at a Lexus dealer.
Check the powertrain warranty on the car. If it has the same 72 month,
70,000 warranty as current models have, it may still be covered by the
powertrain warranty.
--

Wow! And $500 is parts+labor? The car has just covered 70K miles. SO
it looks like I've lucked out big time if it does require
replacement. :-(

Post by Ray O
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

$500 is just a guess on my part.

In all likelihood, the universal joint and driveshaft will be within factory
specifications and the car will be fine.

[goonie12]

Post by Ray O
<snipped>

Post by goonie12

Post by Ray O

Post by goonie12

--

Also, if the play is too much, what needs to be fixed/replaced? Is it
an expensive job?
Thanks!

If the play is too much, the driveshaft needs replacement. I've never
priced a driveshaft replacement, but I would imagine that it costs $500 or
so at a Lexus dealer.
Check the powertrain warranty on the car. If it has the same 72 month,
70,000 warranty as current models have, it may still be covered by the
powertrain warranty.
--

Wow! And $500 is parts+labor? The car has just covered 70K miles. SO
it looks like I've lucked out big time if it does require
replacement. :-(

Post by Ray O
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

$500 is just a guess on my part.
In all likelihood, the universal joint and driveshaft will be within factory
specifications and the car will be fine.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Thanks Ray! Keeping my fingers crossed.

Praveen

[Ray O]

Post by goonie12

Post by Ray O
<snipped>

Post by goonie12

Post by Ray O

Post by goonie12

--

Also, if the play is too much, what needs to be fixed/replaced? Is it
an expensive job?
Thanks!

If the play is too much, the driveshaft needs replacement. I've never
priced a driveshaft replacement, but I would imagine that it costs
$500
or
so at a Lexus dealer.
Check the powertrain warranty on the car. If it has the same 72 month,
70,000 warranty as current models have, it may still be covered by the
powertrain warranty.
--

Wow! And $500 is parts+labor? The car has just covered 70K miles. SO
it looks like I've lucked out big time if it does require
replacement. :-(

Post by Ray O
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

$500 is just a guess on my part.
In all likelihood, the universal joint and driveshaft will be within factory
specifications and the car will be fine.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Thanks Ray! Keeping my fingers crossed.
Praveen

You're welcome and good luck!

[goonie12]

Post by goonie12
______________
|-----------------------|
|-----------------------|
|_____________|
|
|
____
==============#===== |____|
CLICK
|
|
______________
|-----------------------|
|-----------------------|
|_____________|

I put up the diagram again as the previous one got messed up. I also
made a typo in my first post. I meant that when he put the car up on
the lift to look under it, we saw the play and clicking in the
driveshaft that comes from the front to the rear and connects to a
joint near the rear wheels.

As I mentioned, the sound and play is positively noticeable in the
area in the diagram with the "#" sign and CLICK written.

Thanks again for your comments! What do you think?

Praveen

[goonie12]

Post by goonie12
______________
|-----------------------|
|-----------------------|
|_____________|
|
|
____
==============#===== |____|
CLICK
|
|
______________
|-----------------------|
|-----------------------|
|_____________|

I put up the diagram again as the previous one got messed up. I also
made a typo in my first post. I meant that when he put the car up on
the lift to look under it, we saw the play and clicking in the
driveshaft that comes from the front to the rear and connects to a
joint near the rear wheels.

As I mentioned, the sound and play is positively noticeable in the
area in the diagram with the "#" sign and CLICK written.

Thanks again for your comments! What do you think?

Praveen

[goonie12]

Post by goonie12
______________
|-----------------------|
|-----------------------|
|_____________|
|
|
____
==============#===== |____|
CLICK
|
|
______________
|-----------------------|
|-----------------------|
|_____________|

I put up the diagram again as the previous one got messed up. I also
made a typo in my first post. I meant that when he put the car up on
the lift to look under it, we saw the play and clicking in the
driveshaft that comes from the front to the rear and connects to a
joint near the rear wheels.

As I mentioned, the sound and play is positively noticeable in the
area in the diagram with the "#" sign and CLICK written.

Thanks again for your comments! What do you think?

Praveen