Dealers to 2010 Prius Customer: Car Within Spec and "Get Used to It"

[john]

I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!

Bart has taken her Prius into the dealer twice. "They've said they
can't find anything and they can't duplicate it," she said. "You have
to hit it just so."

One owner from Commerce Township told the National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration that he or she could reproduce a lurching in a
Prius every time a certain pothole was hit.

The Prius owner said a Toyota dealer had responded the car was "within
specifications ... and we just have to get used to it."

http://www.freep.com/article/20100204/BUSINESS01/2040468/2010-Prius-concerns-add-to-Toyotas-safety-issues

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal and
"within spec", so "get used to it" !!!

You're fairly ignorant, aren't you?

Do you know what a car is?
Ever driven a Prius?
I doubt it.

Try looking this term up. It might be a little over your head:
Regenerative Braking

Learn something.

[ransley]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal and
"within spec", so "get used to it" !!!

You're fairly ignorant, aren't you?
Do you know what a car is?
Ever driven a Prius?
I doubt it.
Regenerative Braking
Learn something.

Who is ignorant? Toyota admitted software is at fault in the prius
allowing a 1 second brake delay. They fixed the prius production line
last month. At 60 mph you only go 86 feet before brakes engauge. Thats
about 90 feet of praying for 2010 prius owners, you wouldnt drive a
car like that, nor would I. They say its software but say they havnt
decided on how to fix it and havnt even sent out warnings or a recall
notice, that my friend is ignorant for toyota to do nothing until they
are headlione news. They probably have to replace the computer and a
few more things, but dont want the expense, 1.7 billion 09 4th quarter
profit and they are worries about maybe 200-1000 a car to fix it!
Thats ignorant. You are upset they are headline news, they would never
have been the main headline for long if they fixed what they knew all
along was wrong.

[Tegger]

Post by john
I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!

You're aware that Ford has admitted to having the exact same problem with
its hybrids?

[Al Falfa]

Post by Tegger

Post by john
I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!

You're aware that Ford has admitted to having the exact same problem with
its hybrids?

Does Ford still license their hybrid technology from Toyota?

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by Al Falfa

Post by Tegger

Post by john
I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!

You're aware that Ford has admitted to having the exact same problem
with its hybrids?

Does Ford still license their hybrid technology from Toyota?

Nope.

[dr_jeff]

Post by Al Falfa

Post by Tegger

Post by john
I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!

You're aware that Ford has admitted to having the exact same problem with
its hybrids?

Does Ford still license their hybrid technology from Toyota?

Ford cross-licensed its technology with Toyota. Ford got a lot of its
technology from Volvo. When Ford lawyers looked at the patents, they saw
that their technology was similar, so they had to cross-license the
patents, with Toyota get access to some of Ford's other technology.

Jeff

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by john
I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!

<YAWN> Keep taking the bus. You can tell the driver what he's doing wrong.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by john
I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!
Bart has taken her Prius into the dealer twice. "They've said they
can't find anything and they can't duplicate it," she said. "You have
to hit it just so."
One owner from Commerce Township told the National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration that he or she could reproduce a lurching in a
Prius every time a certain pothole was hit.

The correct answer to that is, "don't hit the pothole."

Maybe the owner should get a Lincoln Continental instead, then she'd
know what lurching really means.
--scott

[Neo]

Post by john
I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!
Bart has taken her Prius into the dealer twice. "They've said they
can't find anything and they can't duplicate it," she said. "You have
to hit it just so."

It is the owner's responsiblity to define the exact
conditions when the problem occurs - the
problem must be repeatable if the cause and
solution is to be determine. You have the
same problem when you go to the doctor
- if the doctor can't find a repeatably
measurable problem with you - he's going to
assume you are a hypochondriac.
you need to have all your ducks in a
row if you expect to make any progress.

Post by john
One owner from Commerce Township told the National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration that he or she could reproduce a lurching in a
Prius every time a certain pothole was hit.
The Prius owner said a Toyota dealer had responded the car was "within
specifications ... and we just have to get used to it."
http://www.freep.com/article/20100204/BUSINESS01/2040468/2010-Prius-c...

As with any car with Electronic Stablity Control, when
the car hits a pothole at high speed the computer sensors will
sense that the tire has momentarily loss traction in that wheel
and which would mean that hydraulic brakes would be momentarily
useless in that particular wheel. In order for the car not to spin
out of control while it is going in a straight line, the ESC would
try to adjust the speed on the other wheel on that same axle
so both wheels on that axle are going at the same speed.
However, this situation should not cause the car to
accelerate the throttle or lose braking power. At low speeds , when
the tire loses traction - a hybrid should shuts down the electric
motor to prevent the electric motor from burning out. When a tire
loses
traction at high speed, if anti lock brakes were applied on a
conventional car, the computer would automatically pump/pulse
the hydraulic brakes at regular interval - all the driver needs
to do is keep pressing the brake pedal and the comptuer
does the rest. To increase braking response time, Toyota
can reprogram the brakes to have shorter the time delay
between pulsing the hydraulic brakes. The other possible
change that I've read about is shortening of the time delay
from switching over from the regenerative brakes to hydraulic
braking system during braking operations - when an emergency
stopping situation is sensed. I drove a 2006 and a 2008
Prius rental from Enterprise for a combination of over
1200 miles in 2008 but never noticed any braking problems,
sudden acceleration problems or any operational problems
at all while I was behind the wheel. So I was very surprised
to read about this problem last year. I suspect that this is
not so much a problem with Toyota but with the
technology they've used -and while some people are
frustrated and upset with Toyota - some of the racist
anti-japanese comment's I've seen on some of the newslink
are downright reprehensible and ugly.

[The Tree]

In article

Post by Neo

Post by john
I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!
Bart has taken her Prius into the dealer twice. "They've said they
can't find anything and they can't duplicate it," she said. "You have
to hit it just so."

It is the owner's responsiblity to define the exact
conditions when the problem occurs - the
problem must be repeatable if the cause and
solution is to be determine. You have the
same problem when you go to the doctor
- if the doctor can't find a repeatably
measurable problem with you - he's going to
assume you are a hypochondriac.
you need to have all your ducks in a
row if you expect to make any progress.

Post by john
One owner from Commerce Township told the National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration that he or she could reproduce a lurching in a
Prius every time a certain pothole was hit.
The Prius owner said a Toyota dealer had responded the car was "within
specifications ... and we just have to get used to it."
http://www.freep.com/article/20100204/BUSINESS01/2040468/2010-Prius-c...

As with any car with Electronic Stablity Control, when
the car hits a pothole at high speed the computer sensors will
sense that the tire has momentarily loss traction in that wheel
and which would mean that hydraulic brakes would be momentarily
useless in that particular wheel. In order for the car not to spin
out of control while it is going in a straight line, the ESC would
try to adjust the speed on the other wheel on that same axle
so both wheels on that axle are going at the same speed.
However, this situation should not cause the car to
accelerate the throttle or lose braking power. At low speeds , when
the tire loses traction - a hybrid should shuts down the electric
motor to prevent the electric motor from burning out. When a tire
loses
traction at high speed, if anti lock brakes were applied on a
conventional car, the computer would automatically pump/pulse
the hydraulic brakes at regular interval - all the driver needs
to do is keep pressing the brake pedal and the comptuer
does the rest. To increase braking response time, Toyota
can reprogram the brakes to have shorter the time delay
between pulsing the hydraulic brakes. The other possible
change that I've read about is shortening of the time delay
from switching over from the regenerative brakes to hydraulic
braking system during braking operations - when an emergency
stopping situation is sensed. I drove a 2006 and a 2008
Prius rental from Enterprise for a combination of over
1200 miles in 2008 but never noticed any braking problems,
sudden acceleration problems or any operational problems
at all while I was behind the wheel. So I was very surprised
to read about this problem last year. I suspect that this is
not so much a problem with Toyota but with the
technology they've used -and while some people are
frustrated and upset with Toyota - some of the racist
anti-japanese comment's I've seen on some of the newslink
are downright reprehensible and ugly.

You hit the nail on the head.

Toyota vehicles have become too sophisticated for drivers. They have
not a clue as to the innovative features on their new car. For those,
we must have a model T to drive, with air conditioning.

[dr_jeff]

Post by The Tree
In article

Post by Neo

Post by john
I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!
Bart has taken her Prius into the dealer twice. "They've said they
can't find anything and they can't duplicate it," she said. "You have
to hit it just so."

It is the owner's responsiblity to define the exact
conditions when the problem occurs - the
problem must be repeatable if the cause and
solution is to be determine. You have the
same problem when you go to the doctor
- if the doctor can't find a repeatably
measurable problem with you - he's going to
assume you are a hypochondriac.
you need to have all your ducks in a
row if you expect to make any progress.

Post by john
One owner from Commerce Township told the National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration that he or she could reproduce a lurching in a
Prius every time a certain pothole was hit.
The Prius owner said a Toyota dealer had responded the car was "within
specifications ... and we just have to get used to it."
http://www.freep.com/article/20100204/BUSINESS01/2040468/2010-Prius-c...

As with any car with Electronic Stablity Control, when
the car hits a pothole at high speed the computer sensors will
sense that the tire has momentarily loss traction in that wheel
and which would mean that hydraulic brakes would be momentarily
useless in that particular wheel. In order for the car not to spin
out of control while it is going in a straight line, the ESC would
try to adjust the speed on the other wheel on that same axle
so both wheels on that axle are going at the same speed.
However, this situation should not cause the car to
accelerate the throttle or lose braking power. At low speeds , when
the tire loses traction - a hybrid should shuts down the electric
motor to prevent the electric motor from burning out. When a tire
loses
traction at high speed, if anti lock brakes were applied on a
conventional car, the computer would automatically pump/pulse
the hydraulic brakes at regular interval - all the driver needs
to do is keep pressing the brake pedal and the comptuer
does the rest. To increase braking response time, Toyota
can reprogram the brakes to have shorter the time delay
between pulsing the hydraulic brakes. The other possible
change that I've read about is shortening of the time delay
from switching over from the regenerative brakes to hydraulic
braking system during braking operations - when an emergency
stopping situation is sensed. I drove a 2006 and a 2008
Prius rental from Enterprise for a combination of over
1200 miles in 2008 but never noticed any braking problems,
sudden acceleration problems or any operational problems
at all while I was behind the wheel. So I was very surprised
to read about this problem last year. I suspect that this is
not so much a problem with Toyota but with the
technology they've used -and while some people are
frustrated and upset with Toyota - some of the racist
anti-japanese comment's I've seen on some of the newslink
are downright reprehensible and ugly.

You hit the nail on the head.
Toyota vehicles have become too sophisticated for drivers. They have
not a clue as to the innovative features on their new car. For those,
we must have a model T to drive, with air conditioning.

We have barely a clue how the usenet groups work, but, we still manage
to use it. I understand most of ideas around how the software works on
my computer (it's an Apple, so it works well), but, I don't need to
understand the details.

Rather than expect the user to learn how everything works on a car, the
car makers need to make it so that the cars work in an intuitive way so
that users can make intelligent decisions about using the car.

Jeff

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by The Tree
In article

Post by john
I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!
Bart has taken her Prius into the dealer twice. "They've said they
can't find anything and they can't duplicate it," she said. "You have
to hit it just so."

It is the owner's responsiblity to define the exact conditions when the
problem occurs - the problem must be repeatable if the cause and
solution is to be determine. You have the same problem when you go to
the doctor - if the doctor can't find a repeatably measurable problem
with you - he's going to assume you are a hypochondriac.
you need to have all your ducks in a
row if you expect to make any progress.

Post by john
One owner from Commerce Township told the National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration that he or she could reproduce a lurching in a
Prius every time a certain pothole was hit.
The Prius owner said a Toyota dealer had responded the car was "within
specifications ... and we just have to get used to it."
http://www.freep.com/article/20100204/BUSINESS01/2040468/2010-Prius-c...

As with any car with Electronic Stablity Control, when the car hits a
pothole at high speed the computer sensors will sense that the tire has
momentarily loss traction in that wheel and which would mean that
hydraulic brakes would be momentarily useless in that particular wheel.
In order for the car not to spin out of control while it is going in a
straight line, the ESC would try to adjust the speed on the other wheel
on that same axle so both wheels on that axle are going at the same
speed. However, this situation should not cause the car to accelerate
the throttle or lose braking power. At low speeds , when the tire loses
traction - a hybrid should shuts down the electric motor to prevent the
electric motor from burning out. When a tire loses
traction at high speed, if anti lock brakes were applied on a
conventional car, the computer would automatically pump/pulse the
hydraulic brakes at regular interval - all the driver needs to do is
keep pressing the brake pedal and the comptuer does the rest. To
increase braking response time, Toyota can reprogram the brakes to have
shorter the time delay between pulsing the hydraulic brakes. The other
possible change that I've read about is shortening of the time delay
from switching over from the regenerative brakes to hydraulic braking
system during braking operations - when an emergency stopping situation
is sensed. I drove a 2006 and a 2008 Prius rental from Enterprise for
a combination of over 1200 miles in 2008 but never noticed any braking
problems, sudden acceleration problems or any operational problems at
all while I was behind the wheel. So I was very surprised to read
about this problem last year. I suspect that this is not so much a
problem with Toyota but with the technology they've used -and while some
people are frustrated and upset with Toyota - some of the racist
anti-japanese comment's I've seen on some of the newslink are downright
reprehensible and ugly.

You hit the nail on the head.
Toyota vehicles have become too sophisticated for drivers. They have not
a clue as to the innovative features on their new car. For those, we must
have a model T to drive, with air conditioning.

I have an elderly cousin who can't figure out how to turn on the
windshield wipers in her Honda Accord

[C. E. White]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク
I have an elderly cousin who can't figure out how to turn on the
windshield wipers in her Honda Accord

The first time I drove the SO's RAV4, it took me 5 minutes to find the
mirror control joystick. It took another 5 minutes to find the cruise
control switch thingy and another 5 to figure out how to make it work.
I got used to all this, but the controls in that car are horrid. I
could write pages on the stupidity of the inside out control knobs and
the ridiculous shift lever. It is bad enough that Toyota has the worst
erogonmic engineers in the world, now they have begun to affect
American manufacturers. My 2009 F-150 is full of the stupid inside out
knobs and they all look the same! It should be easy to understand a
control with just a glance but when I look over at the F150 control
area all I see are a bunch of illogically arranged knobs and buttons
that all look the same and all have tiny writing. Even the cover for
the power point and the 4WD control look the same. Very Japanese like
and very STUPID.

By ""inside out knobs", I mean knobs were the level / position
indicators are in the middle of the knob - the RAV4 has little windows
where the position indicators show up. Becasue they are on the inside
of the knob, they are obscured by your hand when you operate the
control - stupid. The F150 is actually worse than the RAV4 because the
knobs are even smaller.

My Mother's Highlander is somewhat better than the RAV4 - or maybe I
have just gotten used to Toyota's bad control design.

Ed

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by C. E. White
The first time I drove the SO's RAV4, it took me 5 minutes to find the
mirror control joystick. It took another 5 minutes to find the cruise
control switch thingy and another 5 to figure out how to make it work.
I got used to all this, but the controls in that car are horrid. I
could write pages on the stupidity of the inside out control knobs and
the ridiculous shift lever. It is bad enough that Toyota has the worst
erogonmic engineers in the world, now they have begun to affect
American manufacturers.

This isn't just a Toyota thing.

Hip owners want "bling" and to show how tech savvy they are. The more
gadgets and gizmos, the cooler.

All fine and well, but when bling gets in the way of being able to operate
the car...