Nitrogen in tires?

[W. Wells]

What was the advantage of nitrogen in tires. I see where they offer it here
for about $40

[Ray]

Post by W. Wells
What was the advantage of nitrogen in tires. I see where they offer it here
for about $40

In automotive applications it makes a lot of profit for the seller.

[Ray O]

Post by W. Wells
What was the advantage of nitrogen in tires. I see where they offer it
here for about $40

There was a recent post regarding this subject. Nitrogen is used in high
performance applications like in some race cars and aircraft because it
contains less moisture than ambient air and so there is less pressure
differentiation and corrosion; the nitrogen itself causes less pressure
differentials due to temperature, and it supposedly leaks more slowly. As a
practical matter, there is probably little difference between ambient air
and nitrogen for passenger car tires, especially if the ambient air is run
through a drier before being discharged from the compressor. Bottom line,
save your money.

[Copper Emeritus]

Post by Ray O

Post by W. Wells
What was the advantage of nitrogen in tires. I see where they offer it
here for about $40

There was a recent post regarding this subject. Nitrogen is used in high
performance applications like in some race cars and aircraft because it
contains less moisture than ambient air and so there is less pressure
differentiation and corrosion; the nitrogen itself causes less pressure
differentials due to temperature, and it supposedly leaks more slowly. As
a practical matter, there is probably little difference between ambient
air and nitrogen for passenger car tires, especially if the ambient air is
run through a drier before being discharged from the compressor. Bottom
line, save your money.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Ray:

A friend of mine fell for this scam at a Cosco store recently, because
they told him the big advantage of nitrogen was that it did not expand like
air when it got hot, so the air pressure in his tires would stay stable.

The more I thought about this the worse it sounded. Car manufacturers
recommend a specific cold PSI number for their tires, knowing that they are
going to heat up under normal driving conditions. If you use nitrogen, then
aren't you essentially driving on underinflated tires all the time?

[Ray O]

Post by Copper Emeritus

Post by Ray O

Post by W. Wells
What was the advantage of nitrogen in tires. I see where they offer it
here for about $40

There was a recent post regarding this subject. Nitrogen is used in high
performance applications like in some race cars and aircraft because it
contains less moisture than ambient air and so there is less pressure
differentiation and corrosion; the nitrogen itself causes less pressure
differentials due to temperature, and it supposedly leaks more slowly.
As a practical matter, there is probably little difference between
ambient air and nitrogen for passenger car tires, especially if the
ambient air is run through a drier before being discharged from the
compressor. Bottom line, save your money.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

A friend of mine fell for this scam at a Cosco store recently, because
they told him the big advantage of nitrogen was that it did not expand
like air when it got hot, so the air pressure in his tires would stay
stable.
The more I thought about this the worse it sounded. Car manufacturers
recommend a specific cold PSI number for their tires, knowing that they
are going to heat up under normal driving conditions. If you use nitrogen,
then aren't you essentially driving on underinflated tires all the time?

Good point. The answer is probably, yes, unless whoever is filling the
tires knows to increase the pressure. I am a believer in adding 4 to 6 PSI
to the automaker's recommended cold tire pressure to even out tire wear.
I've found that the outside tread will wear more quickly using the
automaker's recommended tire pressure, and adding the 4 to 6 PSI evens tread
wear, at the cost of a slightly harsher ride.

[Copper Emeritus]

Post by Ray O

Post by Copper Emeritus

Post by Ray O

Post by W. Wells
What was the advantage of nitrogen in tires. I see where they offer it
here for about $40

There was a recent post regarding this subject. Nitrogen is used in
high performance applications like in some race cars and aircraft
because it contains less moisture than ambient air and so there is less
pressure differentiation and corrosion; the nitrogen itself causes less
pressure differentials due to temperature, and it supposedly leaks more
slowly. As a practical matter, there is probably little difference
between ambient air and nitrogen for passenger car tires, especially if
the ambient air is run through a drier before being discharged from the
compressor. Bottom line, save your money.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

A friend of mine fell for this scam at a Cosco store recently, because
they told him the big advantage of nitrogen was that it did not expand
like air when it got hot, so the air pressure in his tires would stay
stable.
The more I thought about this the worse it sounded. Car manufacturers
recommend a specific cold PSI number for their tires, knowing that they
are going to heat up under normal driving conditions. If you use
nitrogen, then aren't you essentially driving on underinflated tires all
the time?

Good point. The answer is probably, yes, unless whoever is filling the
tires knows to increase the pressure. I am a believer in adding 4 to 6
PSI to the automaker's recommended cold tire pressure to even out tire
wear. I've found that the outside tread will wear more quickly using the
automaker's recommended tire pressure, and adding the 4 to 6 PSI evens
tread wear, at the cost of a slightly harsher ride.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

I do the same thing, for the same reasons. I don't really feel that the
ride is that much harder. Four extra PSI on the right, five extra PSI on the
left. (I enjoy my beer and BBQ, and I carry the results with me every where
I go!)

[David Z]

Post by Ray O

Post by W. Wells
What was the advantage of nitrogen in tires. I see where they offer it
here for about $40

There was a recent post regarding this subject. Nitrogen is used in high
performance applications like in some race cars and aircraft because it
contains less moisture than ambient air and so there is less pressure
differentiation and corrosion; the nitrogen itself causes less pressure
differentials due to temperature, and it supposedly leaks more slowly. As
a practical matter, there is probably little difference between ambient
air and nitrogen for passenger car tires...

The last 3 cars I've owned (1997 ES 300, 1987 Acura Legend Coupe and 1983
Pontiac Firebird) all suffered from slow tire leaks after about 3 to 5
years. I repeatedly had to get the rims sanded to stop these leaks, but in
all cases, I was told that eventually the rims would have to be replaced.
In fact, the prospect of replacing the rims probably motivated me to sell
these cars sooner than I would have otherwise.

I live in the snowbelt and, on these 3 cars, I religiously kept the tires
filled with air at 32/33 PSI. Also, I keep my cars for 5 to 10 years. I
wonder if this frequent checking/filling introduced moisture which
accelrated rim corrosion.

Post by Ray O
...especially if the ambient air is run through a drier before being
discharged from the compressor.

Where do you find that? I don't know anywhere that's available.

Post by Ray O
Bottom line, save your money.

On my current car (2004 ES 330), I rarely check/fill the tires. From past
experience, I figure that the more often you fill them (with regular "moist"
air) the more often you'll have to fill them, due to accelerated rim
corrosion.

[Ray O]

Post by David Z

Post by Ray O

Post by W. Wells
What was the advantage of nitrogen in tires. I see where they offer it
here for about $40

There was a recent post regarding this subject. Nitrogen is used in high
performance applications like in some race cars and aircraft because it
contains less moisture than ambient air and so there is less pressure
differentiation and corrosion; the nitrogen itself causes less pressure
differentials due to temperature, and it supposedly leaks more slowly.
As a practical matter, there is probably little difference between
ambient air and nitrogen for passenger car tires...

The last 3 cars I've owned (1997 ES 300, 1987 Acura Legend Coupe and 1983
Pontiac Firebird) all suffered from slow tire leaks after about 3 to 5
years. I repeatedly had to get the rims sanded to stop these leaks, but
in all cases, I was told that eventually the rims would have to be
replaced. In fact, the prospect of replacing the rims probably motivated
me to sell these cars sooner than I would have otherwise.

Sanding the rims exposes bare metal to moisture, so a clear coat of lacquer
should be applied after sanding, or the problem will continue to appear.
Cast alloy wheels are porous and so the wheel manufacturer paints the inside
surface of the wheel with a clear coating which is removed when sanding.

Post by David Z
I live in the snowbelt and, on these 3 cars, I religiously kept the tires
filled with air at 32/33 PSI. Also, I keep my cars for 5 to 10 years. I
wonder if this frequent checking/filling introduced moisture which
accelrated rim corrosion.

Possibly, especially if you fill from a compressor with a tank.

Post by David Z

Post by Ray O
...especially if the ambient air is run through a drier before being
discharged from the compressor.

Where do you find that? I don't know anywhere that's available.

Many, but not all, dealer service facilities use a drier on compressor
discharge air. My unscientific wild guess is that driers are less common at
at quick lube and independent service facilities. Basically, a drier
chilles the air so that moisture condenses out like a de-humidifier.
Removing the moisture from the air will prolong air tool life, and a side
benefit is that it will reduce the amount of moisture introduced into tires.
Moisture will condense in the bottom of compressor tanks, and the tanks
should be drained daily to reduce the amount of moisture in the discharge
air. I'll admit that I only drain the tank on my compressor two or three
times a year, when I notice moisture coming from the exhaust ports on my air
tools. I have a moisture separator/filter on my home compressor but it does
not do an effective job at removing moisture.

My guess is that those inexpensive tire pumps that plug into 12 volt or 110
volt outlets introduce less moisture into tires than a compressor does
because it is not holding a large volume of air. Those pumps take a long
time, so I just use my compressor.

Post by David Z

Post by Ray O
Bottom line, save your money.

On my current car (2004 ES 330), I rarely check/fill the tires. From past
experience, I figure that the more often you fill them (with regular
"moist" air) the more often you'll have to fill them, due to accelerated
rim corrosion.

The next time you have a leak due to a porous alloy wheel or corrosion on
the wheel rim, have the service facility paint the corroded areas, the
places they sanded, and the entire rim with a generous coating of bead
sealer before installing the tire. The black goop does a pretty good job of
slowing down re-occurrences.

[David Z]

Post by Ray O

Post by David Z
The last 3 cars I've owned (1997 ES 300, 1987 Acura Legend Coupe and 1983
Pontiac Firebird) all suffered from slow tire leaks after about 3 to 5
years. I repeatedly had to get the rims sanded to stop these leaks, but
in all cases, I was told that eventually the rims would have to be
replaced. In fact, the prospect of replacing the rims probably motivated
me to sell these cars sooner than I would have otherwise.

Sanding the rims exposes bare metal to moisture, so a clear coat of
lacquer should be applied after sanding, or the problem will continue to
appear. Cast alloy wheels are porous and so the wheel manufacturer paints
the inside surface of the wheel with a clear coating which is removed when
sanding.

Post by David Z
I live in the snowbelt and, on these 3 cars, I religiously kept the tires
filled with air at 32/33 PSI. Also, I keep my cars for 5 to 10 years. I
wonder if this frequent checking/filling introduced moisture which
accelrated rim corrosion.

Possibly, especially if you fill from a compressor with a tank.

Yeah, that's what most gas stations have. I used to fill my tires at gas
stations all the time. Not anymore.

Post by Ray O

Post by David Z

Post by Ray O
...especially if the ambient air is run through a drier before being
discharged from the compressor.

Where do you find that? I don't know anywhere that's available.

Many, but not all, dealer service facilities use a drier on compressor
discharge air.

I asked one of the service reps at my Lexus dealer and he didn't even know
what I was talking about. They may have a drier on their compressor, but
the rep doesn't know about it. But then, who knows when was the last time
they drained the unit?

Post by Ray O
My unscientific wild guess is that driers are less common at at quick
lube and independent service facilities. Basically, a drier chilles the
air so that moisture condenses out like a de-humidifier. Removing the
moisture from the air will prolong air tool life, and a side benefit is
that it will reduce the amount of moisture introduced into tires. Moisture
will condense in the bottom of compressor tanks, and the tanks should be
drained daily to reduce the amount of moisture in the discharge air. I'll
admit that I only drain the tank on my compressor two or three times a
year, when I notice moisture coming from the exhaust ports on my air
tools. I have a moisture separator/filter on my home compressor but it
does not do an effective job at removing moisture.
My guess is that those inexpensive tire pumps that plug into 12 volt or
110 volt outlets introduce less moisture into tires than a compressor does
because it is not holding a large volume of air. Those pumps take a long
time, so I just use my compressor.

I have one of those in my trunk. It's very slow. I should have paid
another $10 or $20 and gotten the faster one.

Post by Ray O

Post by David Z

Post by Ray O
Bottom line, save your money.

On my current car (2004 ES 330), I rarely check/fill the tires. From
past experience, I figure that the more often you fill them (with regular
"moist" air) the more often you'll have to fill them, due to accelerated
rim corrosion.

The next time you have a leak due to a porous alloy wheel or corrosion on
the wheel rim, have the service facility paint the corroded areas, the
places they sanded, and the entire rim with a generous coating of bead
sealer before installing the tire. The black goop does a pretty good job
of slowing down re-occurrences.

I've always had my rims sanded at a name brand tire dealer and they've
always put on the black goop for sealing. Nonetheless, that stuff only
lasts a year or 2 if I'm lucky.

[Ray O]

"David Z" <***@privacy.net> wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...
<snipped>

Post by David Z

Post by Ray O
Many, but not all, dealer service facilities use a drier on compressor
discharge air.

I asked one of the service reps at my Lexus dealer and he didn't even know
what I was talking about. They may have a drier on their compressor, but
the rep doesn't know about it. But then, who knows when was the last time
they drained the unit?

Most Lexus dealers have very nice facilities and equipment, so I would
imagine that they have a drier installed on their compressor. They may even
have an automatic tank drain. The service manager would know what type of
equipment they have and who is responsible for maintenance, probobably the
team leader or shop foreman.

Post by David Z

Post by Ray O
My unscientific wild guess is that driers are less common at at quick
lube and independent service facilities. Basically, a drier chilles the
air so that moisture condenses out like a de-humidifier. Removing the
moisture from the air will prolong air tool life, and a side benefit is
that it will reduce the amount of moisture introduced into tires.
Moisture will condense in the bottom of compressor tanks, and the tanks
should be drained daily to reduce the amount of moisture in the discharge
air. I'll admit that I only drain the tank on my compressor two or three
times a year, when I notice moisture coming from the exhaust ports on my
air tools. I have a moisture separator/filter on my home compressor but
it does not do an effective job at removing moisture.
My guess is that those inexpensive tire pumps that plug into 12 volt or
110 volt outlets introduce less moisture into tires than a compressor
does because it is not holding a large volume of air. Those pumps take a
long time, so I just use my compressor.

I have one of those in my trunk. It's very slow. I should have paid
another $10 or $20 and gotten the faster one.

I've been thinking about getting one for long trips but have never gotten
around to it.

Post by David Z

Post by Ray O

Post by David Z

Post by Ray O
Bottom line, save your money.

On my current car (2004 ES 330), I rarely check/fill the tires. From
past experience, I figure that the more often you fill them (with
regular "moist" air) the more often you'll have to fill them, due to
accelerated rim corrosion.

The next time you have a leak due to a porous alloy wheel or corrosion on
the wheel rim, have the service facility paint the corroded areas, the
places they sanded, and the entire rim with a generous coating of bead
sealer before installing the tire. The black goop does a pretty good job
of slowing down re-occurrences.

I've always had my rims sanded at a name brand tire dealer and they've
always put on the black goop for sealing. Nonetheless, that stuff only
lasts a year or 2 if I'm lucky.

I did not have success until I got them to coat the entire interior of the
wheel with the bead sealer, and that worked for the life of the tire.

[nopcbs]

Consumer Reports just reported on a study of "air", which is mostly nitrogen
and nitrogen. They found that nitrogen alone leaked more slowly out of tires
over a very long period, a year I think. The difference in psi loss was a
couple of psi. Nothing huge and not worth paying to avoid since you should
top off your tires monthly, anyway. If I paid somebody $40 to fill my tires
with nitrogen, I would expect dinner afterwards and a phone call the next
day.

- nopcbs

Post by Ray O

Post by W. Wells
What was the advantage of nitrogen in tires. I see where they offer it
here for about $40

There was a recent post regarding this subject. Nitrogen is used in high
performance applications like in some race cars and aircraft because it
contains less moisture than ambient air and so there is less pressure
differentiation and corrosion; the nitrogen itself causes less pressure
differentials due to temperature, and it supposedly leaks more slowly. As
a practical matter, there is probably little difference between ambient
air and nitrogen for passenger car tires, especially if the ambient air is
run through a drier before being discharged from the compressor. Bottom
line, save your money.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

[W. Wells]

I'm with you! And a kiss also.

Post by nopcbs
Consumer Reports just reported on a study of "air", which is mostly
nitrogen and nitrogen. They found that nitrogen alone leaked more slowly
out of tires over a very long period, a year I think. The difference in
psi loss was a couple of psi. Nothing huge and not worth paying to avoid
since you should top off your tires monthly, anyway. If I paid somebody
$40 to fill my tires with nitrogen, I would expect dinner afterwards and a
phone call the next day.
- nopcbs

Post by Ray O

Post by W. Wells
What was the advantage of nitrogen in tires. I see where they offer it
here for about $40

There was a recent post regarding this subject. Nitrogen is used in high
performance applications like in some race cars and aircraft because it
contains less moisture than ambient air and so there is less pressure
differentiation and corrosion; the nitrogen itself causes less pressure
differentials due to temperature, and it supposedly leaks more slowly.
As a practical matter, there is probably little difference between
ambient air and nitrogen for passenger car tires, especially if the
ambient air is run through a drier before being discharged from the
compressor. Bottom line, save your money.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)