Owner can set off sudden acceleration in a Toyota (Don't try this at home!)

Post by john
Chuck Eaton, a retired industrial engineer in Greer, S.C., said he has
experienced a surge in his 2006 Toyota Tacoma three or four times,
usually in warmer weather, when he deactivates the cruise control at
between 65 and 70 m.p.h., then quickly resets it. But it has never
happened in his wife's 2004 Toyota Camry.
http://www.freep.com/article/20100201/BUSINESS01/2010368/1331/

On this evening's network news, Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak reported
the same misbehavior in his 2010 Prius.

john

2010-02-03 01:14:51 UTC

I Googled the article, scary:

"Wozniak said he was surprised several months ago when his 2010 Toyota
Prius started accelerating on its own -- to as much as 97 mph -- when
he used cruise control to increase the vehicle's speed. He said he had
to tap the brakes to stop the car from accelerating.

Wozniak, 59, wanted to alert Toyota Motor Corp. and the National
Highway Traffic Safety Administration to the possible safety issue,
but he grew frustrated when he was unable to reach someone who would
listen. A local dealership did not respond to his concerns, he said."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-wozniak3-2010feb03,0,3057333.story

Post by Not Me
On this evening's network news, Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak reported
the same misbehavior in his 2010 Prius.

Mike Hunter

2010-02-03 01:39:50 UTC

"Wozniak is famous for collecting technology he likes, including Segways,
iPhones and Priuses. "No product is perfect," he said. "I would buy another
one."

He should know, he is an Apple co-founder ;)

"john" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:e4bb9782-6294-454f-88c8-***@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
I Googled the article, scary:

"Wozniak said he was surprised several months ago when his 2010 Toyota
Prius started accelerating on its own -- to as much as 97 mph -- when
he used cruise control to increase the vehicle's speed. He said he had
to tap the brakes to stop the car from accelerating.

Wozniak, 59, wanted to alert Toyota Motor Corp. and the National
Highway Traffic Safety Administration to the possible safety issue,
but he grew frustrated when he was unable to reach someone who would
listen. A local dealership did not respond to his concerns, he said."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-wozniak3-2010feb03,0,3057333.story

Post by Not Me
On this evening's network news, Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak reported
the same misbehavior in his 2010 Prius.

fred

2010-02-03 01:59:41 UTC

Post by Mike Hunter
"Wozniak is famous for collecting technology he likes, including
Segways, iPhones and Priuses. "No product is perfect," he said. "I
would buy another one."
He should know, he is an Apple co-founder ;)

He's more than that, He *invented* the apple computer single-handedly. Both
of their first products I think. The Apple 1 and II.Look up his name and
Captain Crunch if you want to see what he did for fun before that.

Mike Hunter

2010-02-03 01:35:54 UTC

Wow, even with a $34,000 Prius.

Post by Not Me

On this evening's network news, Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak reported
the same misbehavior in his 2010 Prius.

n***@wt.net

2010-02-03 02:05:09 UTC

Post by john
Chuck Eaton, a retired industrial engineer in Greer, S.C., said he has
experienced a surge in his 2006 Toyota Tacoma three or four times,
usually in warmer weather, when he deactivates the cruise control at
between 65 and 70 m.p.h., then quickly resets it. But it has never
happened in his wife's 2004 Toyota Camry.
Full article at:http://www.freep.com/article/20100201/BUSINESS01/2010368/1331/

Dunno.. Unless the cruise is drastically increasing the speed
to a level over what the cruise is set at, sounds fairly normal.
I don't know about the new versions, but I know my 05 Corolla
is very aggressive at regaining speed if it drops below the set speed.
So if you had it set at say, 70mph, and then disconnected it and
let the speed drop to say 60 and then reset it, it will punch the
throttle pretty good to get back up to speed. In the case of the
Corolla, it will often downshift. Many times two gears down.
I'll see this if I'm going up a grade and the speed keeps dropping
off. There is actually no need to downshift at all in most cases,
but the programming tells it to do it. And this programming is
coming from the aggressive cruise control, not the throttle per say.
I bet the downshifting is why he saw the drastic rpm increase.

If I go up a hill and it downshifts, if I disconnect the cruise, it
instantly shifts back to high gear. This quirk annoys the heck
out of me, but I do not consider it a defect. It's just the way they
programmed it. My cure is to manually apply the gas going up
steep grades and override the cruise. That way it doesn't slow
down below set speed and want to punch it and downshift.

So really that story means nothing to me, unless the guy can
state that the speed runs way past the set speed. There is
no mention of the final speed it gets up to. When normal, it
will quickly up shift and throttle down quite near the set speed.
It will not drastically overrun it.
But with a resume like he's talking about, it's quite normal
to feel like speed racer just sat in the seat on your lap. :/
Or at least I know it is on some models like mine..
It's not a defect. It's just overly aggressive at throttling up
when it senses too low a speed, because it was too slow at
slowly throttling up to keep the same speed on the grade like it
really should be doing.

Now if his is taking off and wanting to do 100 mph, yep,
Houston we would have a problem.. :/

Mike Hunter

2010-02-03 17:15:44 UTC

I liked the Buick Reveria I owned way back. There was no minimum speed at
which cruse could be engaged. If I had it set a say 30MPH and came to a
traffic light, all I needed to do was hit resume and it would accelerate
smoothly back up to the set speed.

Post by john
Chuck Eaton, a retired industrial engineer in Greer, S.C., said he has
experienced a surge in his 2006 Toyota Tacoma three or four times,
usually in warmer weather, when he deactivates the cruise control at
between 65 and 70 m.p.h., then quickly resets it. But it has never
happened in his wife's 2004 Toyota Camry.
Full article
at:http://www.freep.com/article/20100201/BUSINESS01/2010368/1331/

Ad absurdum per aspera

2010-02-03 19:14:09 UTC

Meanwhile, NHTSA is looking at (not jumping to conclusions about,
just looking at) electronic reasons for these accidents, even as the
field efforts focus upon floor mats and mechanical-advantage issues
regarding the pedal linkage: http://tinyurl.com/y9x5cg6

And the Secretary of Transportation either went off half-cocked or
told more truth than the market would bear (pick one):
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/business/global/04toyota.html?hp

I *like* Toyotas and have owned three of the several in the extended
family; hopefully they'll get to the bottom of this and provide a
fix.

Meanwhile, I do believe the drill for a runaway throttle you can't get
under control (whatever the cause) is the same as for every vehicle:
move the gearshift to the "Nyaaaaahhhhh!" position, conveniently
abbreviated to "N"," isn't it? Had to do this myself once (albeit in
a '65 Chevy pickup, which admittedly has not much except four wheels
and gasoline in common with current Toyotas); worked a treat.

[Of the cruise-control hypothesis]

Post by n***@wt.net
It's not a defect. It's just overly aggressive at throttling up
when it senses too low a speed

Reminds me of a rented Chrysler Town and Country minivan whose cruise
control remembered its open-Interstate setting when I brushed against
a too-easily-manipulated "Resume" button... in a residential
neighborhood with a 25 mph speed limit at the end of my trip. It
made a near maximum performance attempt to return me to 70. Whee!
Fortunately the cruise control and throttle and whatnot were
functioning properly, and stepping on the brake disengaged the
tireless robot servant that was trying to free me from drudgery.
Deciding on situationally appropriate rates and limits is one of the
harder parts of automation...

--Joe

Jeff Strickland

2010-02-03 19:30:42 UTC

Post by Ad absurdum per aspera
Meanwhile, NHTSA is looking at (not jumping to conclusions about,
just looking at) electronic reasons for these accidents, even as the
field efforts focus upon floor mats and mechanical-advantage issues
regarding the pedal linkage: http://tinyurl.com/y9x5cg6

I'm not jumping to conclusions either, but I agree that the problem is
related to the fly-by-wire gas pedal system more so than to the floor mats.
FOR THE RECORD, I don't have one of the affected vehicles, so my opinion and
a quarter will get you a free cup of coffee.

My gut instinct is that there is a combination of electrical inputs that is
creating an error to the logic, the result being that the car is being told
to speed up through the computer system somehow.

My car -- a '94 BMW -- tells me on occasion that the radio has been stolen,
or it has been in a wreck (the emergency flashers turn on for no apparent
reason), or the window rolls itself down a half-inch at a time. All of this
stuff comes about due to an electrical problem that I've not been able to
get my arms around. I can't help but wonder if the fly-by-wire fuel system
is being affected by a similar kind of gremlin that works over my BMW from
time to time.

David Z

2010-02-03 22:21:04 UTC

Post by Jeff Strickland

I'm not jumping to conclusions either, but I agree that the problem is
related to the fly-by-wire gas pedal system more so than to the floor
mats. FOR THE RECORD, I don't have one of the affected vehicles, so my
opinion and a quarter will get you a free cup of coffee.
My gut instinct is that there is a combination of electrical inputs that
is creating an error to the logic, the result being that the car is being
told to speed up through the computer system somehow.
My car -- a '94 BMW -- tells me on occasion that the radio has been
stolen, or it has been in a wreck (the emergency flashers turn on for no
apparent reason), or the window rolls itself down a half-inch at a time.
All of this stuff comes about due to an electrical problem that I've not
been able to get my arms around. I can't help but wonder if the
fly-by-wire fuel system is being affected by a similar kind of gremlin
that works over my BMW from time to time.

I'm not confident that Toyota has "found the problem" and "designed the fix"
in a couple of days. The pressure they are under is more conducive to
getting it "right away" rather than getting it right.

There are a lot of unanswered questions in my mind, many of which have been
discussed here. Here's one question that I haven't seen addressed. The
original incident that made the news was about a highway patrol officer's
911 call in which he was unable to stop a Lexus ES350. Why isn't the ES350
included in the recall?

The situation reminds me of the many complaints about hesitation and jerking
in the ES330/350. For years, Lexus/Toyota has been stonewalling these
complaints and saying that the car "performs as designed." Perhaps if they
had listened to, and responded to, these complaints, they would have
established the proper culture for responding to this problem.

hls

2010-02-03 22:26:59 UTC

Post by David Z
I'm not confident that Toyota has "found the problem" and "designed the
fix" in a couple of days. The pressure they are under is more conducive
to getting it "right away" rather than getting it right.

********
We will see. I heard an interview with a dealership owner and Avalon driver
today
and he was asked point blank if he were certain this will be a fix. What
else could
he say but "yes". He had never had an issue with his Avalon.

Neither have I .

I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how to
shift to
neutral, brake, and punch the button.

David Z

2010-02-03 22:37:47 UTC

********
We will see. I heard an interview with a dealership owner and Avalon
driver today
and he was asked point blank if he were certain this will be a fix. What
else could
he say but "yes". He had never had an issue with his Avalon.
Neither have I .
I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how to
shift to
neutral, brake, and punch the button.

That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the patrol
officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down for at least
3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of the other 3
(?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into neutral?

Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized this
problem?

dr_jeff

2010-02-03 22:46:19 UTC

********
We will see. I heard an interview with a dealership owner and Avalon
driver today
and he was asked point blank if he were certain this will be a fix. What
else could
he say but "yes". He had never had an issue with his Avalon.
Neither have I .
I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how to
shift to
neutral, brake, and punch the button.

That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the patrol
officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down for at least
3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of the other 3
(?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into neutral?
Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized this
problem?

it had a different cause of sticking accelerator: The rug. IT was
covered by a different recall.

David Z

2010-02-03 22:57:08 UTC

Post by David Z
I'm not confident that Toyota has "found the problem" and "designed the
fix" in a couple of days. The pressure they are under is more
conducive to getting it "right away" rather than getting it right.

********
We will see. I heard an interview with a dealership owner and Avalon
driver today
and he was asked point blank if he were certain this will be a fix.
What else could
he say but "yes". He had never had an issue with his Avalon.
Neither have I .
I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how
to shift to
neutral, brake, and punch the button.

That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the
patrol officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down
for at least 3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any
of the other 3 (?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into
neutral?
Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
this problem?

it had a different cause of sticking accelerator: The rug. IT was covered
by a different recall.

That's where I get real skeptical. Are we supposed to believe that these
problems are unrelated? It's possible, but it stretches credulity.

dr_jeff

2010-02-03 22:58:19 UTC

Post by David Z
I'm not confident that Toyota has "found the problem" and "designed the
fix" in a couple of days. The pressure they are under is more
conducive to getting it "right away" rather than getting it right.

********
We will see. I heard an interview with a dealership owner and Avalon
driver today
and he was asked point blank if he were certain this will be a fix.
What else could
he say but "yes". He had never had an issue with his Avalon.
Neither have I .
I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how
to shift to
neutral, brake, and punch the button.

That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the
patrol officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down
for at least 3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any
of the other 3 (?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into
neutral?
Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
this problem?

it had a different cause of sticking accelerator: The rug. IT was covered
by a different recall.

That's where I get real skeptical. Are we supposed to believe that these
problems are unrelated? It's possible, but it stretches credulity.

It's quite possible. We'll see.

Mike Hunter

2010-02-04 16:09:20 UTC

According to todays Tribune Newspapers, the Chairman of the House Oversight
Committee is stating Toyota will be asked about runaways problems with the
Tacoma truck.

The NHTSA has received over 100 complaints about sudden uncontrolled
accelerations problem on the Tacoma, their truck that does NOT use the same
pedal assembly as the other recalled Toyotas.

The article also refers to Japans Transport Ministry releasing that their
have been numerous complaints about "braking problems" with NEW generation
Prius. Toyota admits they are addressing braking problems in previous
Prius models but they are "unaware" of problems in the NEW generation Prius.

The ever growing issue over sudden uncontrolled acceleration in most every
type of Toyota vehicle is having a sensitizing effect on consumers around
the world and Toyotas confusing responses are not helping the situation.
Curious ah?

Post by dr_jeff

Post by dr_jeff

Post by David Z
Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
this problem?

it had a different cause of sticking accelerator: The rug. IT was
covered by a different recall.

That's where I get real skeptical. Are we supposed to believe that these
problems are unrelated? It's possible, but it stretches credulity.

It's quite possible. We'll see.

Ashton Crusher

2010-02-04 01:14:05 UTC

Post by dr_jeff

********
We will see. I heard an interview with a dealership owner and Avalon
driver today
and he was asked point blank if he were certain this will be a fix. What
else could
he say but "yes". He had never had an issue with his Avalon.
Neither have I .
I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how to
shift to
neutral, brake, and punch the button.

That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the patrol
officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down for at least
3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of the other 3
(?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into neutral?
Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized this
problem?

it had a different cause of sticking accelerator: The rug. IT was
covered by a different recall.

My recollection was that after the first reports came out talking
about a rug it was determined that the vehicle did not have any mats
in it.

dr_jeff

2010-02-04 11:30:51 UTC

Post by Ashton Crusher
My recollection was that after the first reports came out talking
about a rug it was determined that the vehicle did not have any mats
in it.

There's a neat free service called Google. Use it.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct/25/nation/na-toyota-crash25

Vic Smith

2010-02-03 23:25:19 UTC

Post by David Z
That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the patrol
officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down for at least
3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of the other 3
(?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into neutral?

I think Tegger answered that question. Something about different
shift modes on the shifter. More unnecessary complication.

--Vic

David Z

2010-02-04 00:57:11 UTC

Post by Vic Smith

I think Tegger answered that question. Something about different
shift modes on the shifter. More unnecessary complication.

What does that mean?

Is he saying that, in some "shift mode," the ES doesn't allow you to shift
from Drive to Neutral? at high speed? What "shift mode" would that be?

Vic Smith

2010-02-04 01:23:38 UTC

Post by Vic Smith

I think Tegger answered that question. Something about different
shift modes on the shifter. More unnecessary complication.

What does that mean?
Is he saying that, in some "shift mode," the ES doesn't allow you to shift
from Drive to Neutral? at high speed? What "shift mode" would that be?

Don't know. Too complicated for me. Ask him.
I don't even like that button on my Grand Am shifter that has to be
depressed to move the shift lever.

--Vic

Hachiroku ハチロク

2010-02-04 03:52:42 UTC

Post by David Z
That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the patrol
officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down for at least
3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of the other
3 (?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into neutral?

I think Tegger answered that question. Something about different shift
modes on the shifter. More unnecessary complication.

What does that mean?
Is he saying that, in some "shift mode," the ES doesn't allow you to shift
from Drive to Neutral? at high speed? What "shift mode" would that be?

Sport mode accessed through a 'gate'. Have to move back to drive and then
to neutral.

Hachiroku ハチロク

2010-02-04 01:06:00 UTC

Post by hls
I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how
to shift to
neutral, brake, and punch the button.

Supposedly he had moved the shift lever to the Sport Shift position, where
average or below average drivers can fancy themselves as Michael
Schumacher at the Nurburgring. He had time to dial 911, but not to check
the gearshift lever.

It was also a car supplied as a loaner. I said in another post people have
become too complacent in their driving. KNOW the vehicle you are driving,
and how to control it in an emergency. EVERY TIME a pilot gets into a
plane he has flown 1,000 times, he goes through a checklist.

Post by David Z
Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
this problem?

It was the floor mats in that case. Not the Japan sourced gas pedal.

ransley

2010-02-04 01:23:11 UTC

Post by hls
I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how
to shift to
neutral, brake, and punch the button.

Supposedly he had moved the shift lever to the Sport Shift position, where
average or below average drivers can fancy themselves as Michael
Schumacher at the Nurburgring. He had time to dial 911, but not to check
the gearshift lever.
It was also a car supplied as a loaner. I said in another post people have
become too complacent in their driving. KNOW the vehicle you are driving,
and how to control it in an emergency. EVERY TIME a pilot gets into a
plane he has flown 1,000 times, he goes through a checklist.

Post by David Z
Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
this problem?

It was the floor mats in that case. Not the Japan sourced gas pedal.

More likely he was at fault and called 911 after the accident and the
car was stopped. I dont think anybody would be able to get their
phone, dial, send, wait, then talk, or even think of that while a
crash was in view. I would do Neutral or R or P and emergency brake,
then ignition, then Call 911. These guys do have training on cars.

David Z

2010-02-04 02:32:15 UTC

Post by ransley

Post by hls
I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how
to shift to
neutral, brake, and punch the button.

Supposedly he had moved the shift lever to the Sport Shift position, where
average or below average drivers can fancy themselves as Michael
Schumacher at the Nurburgring. He had time to dial 911, but not to check
the gearshift lever.
It was also a car supplied as a loaner. I said in another post people have
become too complacent in their driving. KNOW the vehicle you are driving,
and how to control it in an emergency. EVERY TIME a pilot gets into a
plane he has flown 1,000 times, he goes through a checklist.

Post by David Z
Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
this problem?

It was the floor mats in that case. Not the Japan sourced gas pedal.

He crashed at about 120 mph. He was dead on impact.

David Z

2010-02-04 02:37:31 UTC

Post by ransley

Post by hls
I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how
to shift to
neutral, brake, and punch the button.

Supposedly he had moved the shift lever to the Sport Shift position, where
average or below average drivers can fancy themselves as Michael
Schumacher at the Nurburgring. He had time to dial 911, but not to check
the gearshift lever.
It was also a car supplied as a loaner. I said in another post people have
become too complacent in their driving. KNOW the vehicle you are driving,
and how to control it in an emergency. EVERY TIME a pilot gets into a
plane he has flown 1,000 times, he goes through a checklist.

Post by David Z
Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
this problem?

It was the floor mats in that case. Not the Japan sourced gas pedal.

He crashed at about 120 mph. He was dead on impact.

Actually, he may have died in the fire and explosion from the crash. In any
event, listening to the 911 call, there's absolutely no doubt that the 911
call was prior to the crash. If you google it you may be able to listen to
the call. From reading your post, I doubt you've even heard the call.

Al Falfa

2010-02-04 02:41:42 UTC

Post by ransley
More likely he was at fault and called 911 after the accident and the
car was stopped. I dont think anybody would be able to get their
phone, dial, send, wait, then talk, or even think of that while a
crash was in view. I would do Neutral or R or P and emergency brake,
then ignition, then Call 911. These guys do have training on cars.

A passenger called 911 as the car raced through traffic. Everyone in the
car died.

Hachiroku ハチロク

2010-02-04 03:43:08 UTC

Post by David Z
Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
this problem?

It was the floor mats in that case. Not the Japan sourced gas pedal.

More likely he was at fault and called 911 after the accident and the car
was stopped.

He was calling 911 and said, "My throttle is stuck!" and then asked them
to clear an intersection for him.

They didn't. He did. Taking out a truck with him.

David Z

2010-02-04 02:29:31 UTC

Post by hls
I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how
to shift to
neutral, brake, and punch the button.

Supposedly he had moved the shift lever to the Sport Shift position...

Are you saying that you can't easily shift from drive to neutral in "the
Sport Shift position?"

...where average or below average drivers can fancy themselves as Michael
Schumacher at the Nurburgring. He had time to dial 911, but not to check
the gearshift lever.

I heard the 911 call a few times. He had plenty of time. At least 30
seconds or more. I would need no more than 1 or 2 seconds to shift from
drive to neutral.

It was also a car supplied as a loaner. I said in another post people have
become too complacent in their driving. KNOW the vehicle you are driving,
and how to control it in an emergency. EVERY TIME a pilot gets into a
plane he has flown 1,000 times, he goes through a checklist.

Post by David Z
Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
this problem?

It was the floor mats in that case. Not the Japan sourced gas pedal.

Like I said before, it stretches credulity to say that these problems are
not related.

Hachiroku ハチロク

2010-02-04 03:42:01 UTC

Post by David Z
That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the
patrol officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down for
at least 3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of
the other 3 (?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into
neutral?

Supposedly he had moved the shift lever to the Sport Shift position...

Are you saying that you can't easily shift from drive to neutral in "the
Sport Shift position?"

It goes through a gate to get to the sport mode. You access the gate from
the D position. You'd have to go back to D and then to N. I think it
should take less than, oh, 30 seconds or so...

...where average or below average drivers can fancy themselves as
Michael Schumacher at the Nurburgring. He had time to dial 911, but not
to check the gearshift lever.

I heard the 911 call a few times. He had plenty of time. At least 30
seconds or more. I would need no more than 1 or 2 seconds to shift from
drive to neutral.

Are You Smarter Than A CHiP? New game show!!!

I guess I shouldn't poke fun, but JEEZE!!!!

I had an accelerator lock up on me wide open once. I can't remember what
car it was, but the aircraft cable throttle cable was rusty. All I really
remember is that I found neutral FAST!!!!!!!!!!!

Hachiroku ハチロク

2010-02-04 01:01:51 UTC

********
We will see. I heard an interview with a dealership owner and Avalon
driver today
and he was asked point blank if he were certain this will be a fix. What
else could
he say but "yes". He had never had an issue with his Avalon.
Neither have I .
I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how to
shift to
neutral, brake, and punch the button.

And next time buy a "J" VIN Toyota...

Ray O

2010-02-03 22:49:16 UTC

Post by Jeff Strickland

I'm not jumping to conclusions either, but I agree that the problem is
related to the fly-by-wire gas pedal system more so than to the floor
mats. FOR THE RECORD, I don't have one of the affected vehicles, so my
opinion and a quarter will get you a free cup of coffee.
My gut instinct is that there is a combination of electrical inputs that
is creating an error to the logic, the result being that the car is being
told to speed up through the computer system somehow.
My car -- a '94 BMW -- tells me on occasion that the radio has been
stolen, or it has been in a wreck (the emergency flashers turn on for no
apparent reason), or the window rolls itself down a half-inch at a time.
All of this stuff comes about due to an electrical problem that I've not
been able to get my arms around. I can't help but wonder if the
fly-by-wire fuel system is being affected by a similar kind of gremlin
that works over my BMW from time to time.

There are two different recalls to remedy two different causes for a similar
condition. The first recall was to remedy floor mat entrapment of the
throttle pedal, and the ES350 was recalled under this campaign.

The second recall is to fix the sticking throttle pedal assembly. The ES350
was not included in this campaign because the throttle pedal assembly
supplier is different from the producer for vehicles produced in North
America.

--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Hachiroku ハチロク

2010-02-04 01:00:52 UTC

Post by Jeff Strickland
My car -- a '94 BMW -- tells me on occasion that the radio has been
stolen, or it has been in a wreck (the emergency flashers turn on for no
apparent reason), or the window rolls itself down a half-inch at a time.
All of this stuff comes about due to an electrical problem that I've not
been able to get my arms around. I can't help but wonder if the
fly-by-wire fuel system is being affected by a similar kind of gremlin
that works over my BMW from time to time.

The affected vehicles have pedals made (or supplied through) a US company.
Japanese sourced vehicles have not exhibited the problem.

ALWAYS buy a "J" VIN Toyota!

Hachiroku ハチロク

2010-02-03 02:19:40 UTC

Wow. Earth shaking revelation there, johhny!

You don't really know a lot about cars, do you? OF COURSE there's a
'surge', dimwit! You've cancelled the cruise and then reengaged it.
It's going to 'surge' back to the set point, and may actually go a little
over before settling down.

Thanks for proving you're actually as stupid as we thought you were.

hls

2010-02-03 03:12:57 UTC

I have noted an agressive acceleration in both my cars under the same
circumstances, but it is NOT an uncontrollable runaway acceleration.
It is just the nature of the beast.

I guess Toyota could reprogram that situation, but in my case it is not
a problem at all.

Mike Hunter

2010-02-03 17:10:10 UTC

Apparently other Toyota owns felt that way as well, until it happened to
their Toyota

I have noted an agressive acceleration in both my cars under the same
circumstances, but it is NOT an uncontrollable runaway acceleration.
It is just the nature of the beast.
I guess Toyota could reprogram that situation, but in my case it is not
a problem at all.

ransley

2010-02-03 04:11:35 UTC