Toyota Sales Up 9.8% in November; Lexus Leaps Forward 24%.

That explains why John "The Ass" Dole didn't post any Toyota/Lexus sales
numbers this month.

Post by greg
Could it be no one is paying any attention to how terrible Toyota and
Lexus are supposed to be???
Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today reported November sales
of 133,700 vehicles, an increase of 11.5 percent over last November,
on a daily selling rate basis. The Toyota Division posted November
sales of 115,200 units, an increase of 9.8 percent over the same
period last year.
The Lexus Division reported November sales of 18,500 units, an
increase of 24 percent over the year-ago month.
The BMW Group in the U. S. (BMW and MINI combined) reported November
sales of 18,272 vehicles, a decrease of 7.5 percent from the 19,762
vehicles sold in the same month of 2008. BMW Brand Sales Sales of BMW
brand vehicles increased 3.2 percent in November for a total of 15,708
vehicles compared to 15,217 vehicles reported in the same month a year
ago.

C. E. White

2009-12-04 13:02:18 UTC

I just looked at the Auto News website and they only show Toyota sales
up 3% for November. The Toyota news release claims Toyota USA sales
were up 11.5% (Toyota division up 9.8%, Lexus up 22.2%). Interesting
they glossed over the decline in Scion sales. Although the Auto News
web site and the TMS news release posted different percentage
increases, the number of vehicles sold is in a agreement (133,700). I
found this confusing, so I looked further.

Toyota is basing the 11.5% increase on average number of vehicle
sales per day, not total sales for the month. Toyota claims that in
Novemeber 2009 there 23 selling days. In 2008, they claim there were
25 selling days. According to AUto News, last year Toyota USA (Lexus +
Toyota + Scion) sold 130,307 vehicles, or 5,212.28 per day. This year
Toyota USA sold 133,700 vehicles, or 5,813.04 per day, an increase on
a daily basis of 600.76, which is 11.5%. I suppose this is one way to
do it, but it seems a little hinky to me. Using the same logic, GM
sales were up nearly 7% for November, although they actually sold
fewer vehicles in November 2009, than in November 2008.

I wonder how they decided November 2009 had fewer selling days than
2008? In 2009, there were 5 Sundays (1, 8,15, 22, 29) and two
theoretical holidays (Thanksgiving and Veterans Day?). This implies
30-(2+5) = 23. However, where I live the dealers were open on Veternas
Day and the Friday after Thanksgiving, so that means there were at
least 24 selling days in Novemeber in some areas. In 2008, there were
also 5 Sundays (2, 9 16, 23, 20), and two theoretical holidays, yet
Toyota claims there were 25 selling Days in November of 2008. How can
they do this? I guess the net is, Toyota, while not openly lying, is
playing around with number to make it seem if they are doing a lot
better than they really are. I am suprised that GM doesn't use this
sort of convenient math to claim a sales increase as well.

For comparison, using the more accurate (in my opinion) Auto News
reporting scheme (total monthly sales), Toyota did OK in November (up
3%). Ford held steady (up ~ 0.1%). Even GM didn't suffer too much
(down 2%). The real star was Hyundai, up 34% compared to November of
last year. Subaru was also up greatly (+24%). Nissan did well also (up
21%). VW also did OK (up 9%). Others that were up in November 2009
compared to November 2008 - Diamler (+9%), Jaguar Land Rover (+20%),
Mazda (+1%), Porsche (+18%).

Suprisingly Honda was down (-3%). Overall there were about as many
cars sold in Novemebr of 2009 as were sold in Novemebr of 2008
(747,086 and 747,051 respectively).

The Toyota new release did not mention year to date sales. Auto News
still shows Toyota down 24% for 2009 as a whole (this also happens to
be the industry decline).

Ed

Post by David Z
That explains why John "The Ass" Dole didn't post any Toyota/Lexus
sales numbers this month.

Post by greg
Could it be no one is paying any attention to how terrible Toyota and
Lexus are supposed to be???
Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today reported November sales
of 133,700 vehicles, an increase of 11.5 percent over last
November,
on a daily selling rate basis. The Toyota Division posted November
sales of 115,200 units, an increase of 9.8 percent over the same
period last year.
The Lexus Division reported November sales of 18,500 units, an
increase of 24 percent over the year-ago month.
The BMW Group in the U. S. (BMW and MINI combined) reported
November
sales of 18,272 vehicles, a decrease of 7.5 percent from the 19,762
vehicles sold in the same month of 2008. BMW Brand Sales Sales of BMW
brand vehicles increased 3.2 percent in November for a total of 15,708
vehicles compared to 15,217 vehicles reported in the same month a year
ago.

Ray O

2009-12-04 17:10:11 UTC

I just looked at the Auto News website and they only show Toyota sales up
3% for November. The Toyota news release claims Toyota USA sales were up
11.5% (Toyota division up 9.8%, Lexus up 22.2%). Interesting they glossed
over the decline in Scion sales. Although the Auto News web site and the
TMS news release posted different percentage increases, the number of
vehicles sold is in a agreement (133,700). I found this confusing, so I
looked further.
Toyota is basing the 11.5% increase on average number of vehicle sales
per day, not total sales for the month. Toyota claims that in Novemeber
2009 there 23 selling days. In 2008, they claim there were 25 selling
days. According to AUto News, last year Toyota USA (Lexus + Toyota +
Scion) sold 130,307 vehicles, or 5,212.28 per day. This year Toyota USA
sold 133,700 vehicles, or 5,813.04 per day, an increase on a daily basis
of 600.76, which is 11.5%. I suppose this is one way to do it, but it
seems a little hinky to me. Using the same logic, GM sales were up nearly
7% for November, although they actually sold fewer vehicles in November
2009, than in November 2008.
I wonder how they decided November 2009 had fewer selling days than 2008?
In 2009, there were 5 Sundays (1, 8,15, 22, 29) and two theoretical
holidays (Thanksgiving and Veterans Day?). This implies 30-(2+5) = 23.
However, where I live the dealers were open on Veternas Day and the Friday
after Thanksgiving, so that means there were at least 24 selling days in
Novemeber in some areas. In 2008, there were also 5 Sundays (2, 9 16, 23,
20), and two theoretical holidays, yet Toyota claims there were 25 selling
Days in November of 2008. How can they do this? I guess the net is,
Toyota, while not openly lying, is playing around with number to make it
seem if they are doing a lot better than they really are. I am suprised
that GM doesn't use this sort of convenient math to claim a sales
increase as well.
For comparison, using the more accurate (in my opinion) Auto News
reporting scheme (total monthly sales), Toyota did OK in November (up 3%).
Ford held steady (up ~ 0.1%). Even GM didn't suffer too much (down 2%).
The real star was Hyundai, up 34% compared to November of last year.
Subaru was also up greatly (+24%). Nissan did well also (up 21%). VW also
did OK (up 9%). Others that were up in November 2009 compared to November
2008 - Diamler (+9%), Jaguar Land Rover (+20%), Mazda (+1%), Porsche
(+18%).
Suprisingly Honda was down (-3%). Overall there were about as many cars
sold in Novemebr of 2009 as were sold in Novemebr of 2008 (747,086 and
747,051 respectively).
The Toyota new release did not mention year to date sales. Auto News still
shows Toyota down 24% for 2009 as a whole (this also happens to be the
industry decline).
Ed

I've seen the reference to daily average sales rate before from other
automakers. I think automakers started announcing the daily average sales
rate as a way to come up with good news in bad times.

Toyota, and I assume other automakers, use daily average sales rate to
allocate vehicles to dealers and as a gauge for how much to ramp production
up or down. Toyota refers to the daily average sales rate as a "travel
rate" and uses it to determine days supply. That said, month-to-date and
year-to-date sales are what get reported on the financial statements.

--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

bob

2009-12-05 03:48:25 UTC

In article <hfbgct$oko$***@news.eternal-september.org>,
***@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com says...
<snip>

Post by Ray O
I've seen the reference to daily average sales rate before from other
automakers. I think automakers started announcing the daily average sales
rate as a way to come up with good news in bad times.
Toyota, and I assume other automakers, use daily average sales rate to
allocate vehicles to dealers and as a gauge for how much to ramp production
up or down. Toyota refers to the daily average sales rate as a "travel
rate" and uses it to determine days supply. That said, month-to-date and
year-to-date sales are what get reported on the financial statements.

Actually, daily average sales has been used for many years in the auto
industry.

Other industries will report various periodic sales figures and note any
variance in the number of selling days in the current vs. previous
selling period. Both the Jan - Mar and Apr - Jun quarters can be
affected by the date of Easter.

HTH,

Bob

C. E. White

2009-12-06 20:30:52 UTC

Post by bob
Actually, daily average sales has been used for many years in the auto
industry.

I'd still like to understand why November 2008 had 25 selling days and
November 2009 has only 23. I can see any difference in the number of days,
so I must be missing something.

Ed

bob

2009-12-07 02:19:24 UTC

Post by bob
Actually, daily average sales has been used for many years in the auto
industry.

I'd still like to understand why November 2008 had 25 selling days and
November 2009 has only 23. I can see any difference in the number of days,
so I must be missing something.
Ed

Ed,

I don't know the answer either. I was just pointing out that contrary to
what someone suspected, this reporting method is not a recent invention
by the automakers to make their sales look better.

Bob

dr_jeff

2009-12-07 02:46:50 UTC

Post by bob
Actually, daily average sales has been used for many years in the auto
industry.

I'd still like to understand why November 2008 had 25 selling days and
November 2009 has only 23. I can see any difference in the number of days,
so I must be missing something.
Ed

Ed,
I don't know the answer either. I was just pointing out that contrary to
what someone suspected, this reporting method is not a recent invention
by the automakers to make their sales look better.
Bob

I am not so sure that using selling days is not a legitimate practice.
Cars are sold only on selling days. So this may properly adjust for the
number of days that cars can be sold on during a particular month. This
may be a proper way to monitor sales.

Personally, adjusting for the number of selling days is ok, as long as
one considers both the adjusted number and unadjusted numbers.

Jeff

bob

2009-12-07 03:53:23 UTC

In article <***@giganews.com>, ***@msu.edu
says...

Post by dr_jeff

Post by bob
Actually, daily average sales has been used for many years in the auto
industry.

I'd still like to understand why November 2008 had 25 selling days and
November 2009 has only 23. I can see any difference in the number of days,
so I must be missing something.
Ed

Ed,
I don't know the answer either. I was just pointing out that contrary to
what someone suspected, this reporting method is not a recent invention
by the automakers to make their sales look better.
Bob

I am not so sure that using selling days is not a legitimate practice.
Cars are sold only on selling days. So this may properly adjust for the
number of days that cars can be sold on during a particular month. This
may be a proper way to monitor sales.
Personally, adjusting for the number of selling days is ok, as long as
one considers both the adjusted number and unadjusted numbers.
Jeff

Jeff,

I liken it to financial statements that provide figures inclusive and
exclusive of "extraordinary items". Extraordinary items can hide good or
bad operating results, but are included in dividend calculations.

Bob

dr_jeff

2009-12-07 23:33:36 UTC

Post by bob
says...

Post by dr_jeff

Post by bob
Actually, daily average sales has been used for many years in the auto
industry.

I'd still like to understand why November 2008 had 25 selling days and
November 2009 has only 23. I can see any difference in the number of days,
so I must be missing something.
Ed

Ed,
I don't know the answer either. I was just pointing out that contrary to
what someone suspected, this reporting method is not a recent invention
by the automakers to make their sales look better.
Bob

I am not so sure that using selling days is not a legitimate practice.
Cars are sold only on selling days. So this may properly adjust for the
number of days that cars can be sold on during a particular month. This
may be a proper way to monitor sales.
Personally, adjusting for the number of selling days is ok, as long as
one considers both the adjusted number and unadjusted numbers.
Jeff

Jeff,
I liken it to financial statements that provide figures inclusive and
exclusive of "extraordinary items". Extraordinary items can hide good or
bad operating results, but are included in dividend calculations.
Bob

That's a good analogy.

C. E. White

2009-12-07 05:10:37 UTC

Post by dr_jeff

Post by bob
Actually, daily average sales has been used for many years in the auto
industry.

I'd still like to understand why November 2008 had 25 selling days and
November 2009 has only 23. I can see any difference in the number of
days, so I must be missing something.
Ed

Ed,
I don't know the answer either. I was just pointing out that contrary to
what someone suspected, this reporting method is not a recent invention
by the automakers to make their sales look better.
Bob

I am not so sure that using selling days is not a legitimate practice.
Cars are sold only on selling days. So this may properly adjust for the
number of days that cars can be sold on during a particular month. This
may be a proper way to monitor sales.
Personally, adjusting for the number of selling days is ok, as long as one
considers both the adjusted number and unadjusted numbers.
Jeff

OK, I think I have it figured out why there is a difference in selling days.
Apparently it is some sort of industry convention. There is a list of
selling days at http://subscribers.wardsauto.com/refcenter/SellingDays/ .
The chart lists the number of selling days and the date that sales are
reported for 2008, 2009, and 1010. For October 2009 the reporting date was
November 3. The reporting date for November 2009 was December 1. I don't
see the logic in the system, but I guess there must be one. And at any rate,
it does appear to be an industry standard (but still confusing).

Ed

in2dadark

2009-12-05 19:32:05 UTC

Post by Ray O

I just looked at the Auto News website and they only show Toyota sales up
3% for November. The Toyota news release claims Toyota USA sales were up
11.5% (Toyota division up 9.8%, Lexus up 22.2%). Interesting they glossed
over the decline in Scion sales. Although the Auto News web site and the
TMS news release posted different percentage increases, the number of
vehicles sold is in a agreement (133,700). I found this confusing, so I
looked further.
Toyota is basing the 11.5% increase on average number of vehicle sales
per day, not total sales for the month. Toyota claims that in Novemeber
2009 there 23 selling days. In 2008, they claim there were 25 selling
days. According to AUto News, last year Toyota USA (Lexus + Toyota +
Scion) sold 130,307 vehicles, or 5,212.28 per day. This year Toyota USA
sold 133,700 vehicles, or 5,813.04 per day, an increase on a daily basis
of 600.76, which is 11.5%. I suppose this is one way to do it, but it
seems a little hinky to me. Using the same logic, GM sales were up nearly
7% for November, although they actually sold fewer vehicles in November
2009, than in November 2008.
I wonder how they decided November 2009 had fewer selling days than 2008?
In 2009, there were 5 Sundays (1, 8,15, 22, 29) and two theoretical
holidays (Thanksgiving and Veterans Day?). This implies 30-(2+5) = 23.
However, where I live the dealers were open on Veternas Day and the Friday
after Thanksgiving, so that means there were at least 24 selling days in
Novemeber in some areas. In 2008, there were also 5 Sundays (2, 9 16, 23,
20), and two theoretical holidays, yet Toyota claims there were 25 selling
Days in November of 2008. How can they do this? I guess the net is,
Toyota, while not openly lying, is playing around with number to make it
seem if they are doing a lot better than they really are. I am suprised
that GM doesn't use this sort of convenient math to claim a sales
increase as well.
For comparison, using the more accurate (in my opinion) Auto News
reporting scheme (total monthly sales), Toyota did OK in November (up 3%).
Ford held steady (up ~ 0.1%). Even GM didn't suffer too much (down 2%).
The real star was Hyundai, up 34% compared to November of last year.
Subaru was also up greatly (+24%). Nissan did well also (up 21%). VW also
did OK (up 9%). Others that were up in November 2009 compared to November
2008 - Diamler (+9%), Jaguar Land Rover (+20%), Mazda (+1%), Porsche
(+18%).
Suprisingly Honda was down (-3%). Overall there were about as many cars
sold in Novemebr of 2009 as were sold in Novemebr of 2008 (747,086 and
747,051 respectively).
The Toyota new release did not mention year to date sales. Auto News still
shows Toyota down 24% for 2009 as a whole (this also happens to be the
industry decline).
Ed

I've seen the reference to daily average sales rate before from other
automakers. I think automakers started announcing the daily average sales
rate as a way to come up with good news in bad times.
Toyota, and I assume other automakers, use daily average sales rate to
allocate vehicles to dealers and as a gauge for how much to ramp production
up or down. Toyota refers to the daily average sales rate as a "travel
rate" and uses it to determine days supply. That said, month-to-date and
year-to-date sales are what get reported on the financial statements.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

In related news, bullets are flying off the shelves...

Kevin

2009-12-06 01:03:01 UTC

Post by in2dadark

Post by Ray O

Post by C. E. White
I just looked at the Auto News website and they only show Toyota
sales up 3% for November. The Toyota news release claims Toyota USA
sales were up 11.5% (Toyota division up 9.8%, Lexus up 22.2%).
Interesting they glossed over the decline in Scion sales. Although
the Auto News web site and the TMS news release posted different
percentage increases, the number of vehicles sold is in a agreement
(133,700). I found this confusing, so I looked further.
Toyota is basing the 11.5% increase on average number of vehicle
sales per day, not total sales for the month. Toyota claims that in
Novemeber 2009 there 23 selling days. In 2008, they claim there
were 25 selling days. According to AUto News, last year Toyota USA
(Lexus + Toyota + Scion) sold 130,307 vehicles, or 5,212.28 per
day. This year Toyota USA sold 133,700 vehicles, or 5,813.04 per
day, an increase on a daily basis of 600.76, which is 11.5%. I
suppose this is one way to do it, but it seems a little hinky to
me. Using the same logic, GM sales were up nearly 7% for November,
although they actually sold fewer vehicles in November 2009, than
in November 2008.
I wonder how they decided November 2009 had fewer selling days than
2008? In 2009, there were 5 Sundays (1, 8,15, 22, 29) and two
theoretical holidays (Thanksgiving and Veterans Day?). This implies
30-(2+5) = 23. However, where I live the dealers were open on
Veternas Day and the Friday after Thanksgiving, so that means there
were at least 24 selling days in Novemeber in some areas. In 2008,
there were also 5 Sundays (2, 9 16, 23, 20), and two theoretical
holidays, yet Toyota claims there were 25 selling Days in November
of 2008. How can they do this? I guess the net is, Toyota, while
not openly lying, is playing around with number to make it seem if
they are doing a lot better than they really are. I am suprised
that GM doesn't use this sort of convenient math to claim a sales
increase as well.
For comparison, using the more accurate (in my opinion) Auto News
reporting scheme (total monthly sales), Toyota did OK in November
(up 3%). Ford held steady (up ~ 0.1%). Even GM didn't suffer too
much (down 2%). The real star was Hyundai, up 34% compared to
November of last year. Subaru was also up greatly (+24%). Nissan
did well also (up 21%). VW also did OK (up 9%). Others that were up
in November 2009 compared to November 2008 - Diamler (+9%), Jaguar
Land Rover (+20%), Mazda (+1%), Porsche (+18%).
Suprisingly Honda was down (-3%). Overall there were about as many
cars sold in Novemebr of 2009 as were sold in Novemebr of 2008
(747,086 and 747,051 respectively).
The Toyota new release did not mention year to date sales. Auto
News still shows Toyota down 24% for 2009 as a whole (this also
happens to be the industry decline).
Ed

I've seen the reference to daily average sales rate before from other
automakers. I think automakers started announcing the daily average
sales rate as a way to come up with good news in bad times.
Toyota, and I assume other automakers, use daily average sales rate
to allocate vehicles to dealers and as a gauge for how much to ramp
production up or down. Toyota refers to the daily average sales
rate as a "travel rate" and uses it to determine days supply. That
said, month-to-date and year-to-date sales are what get reported on
the financial statements.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

In related news, bullets are flying off the shelves...

At a much higher increase persentage than all of the car manufactures
put together. KB

--
THUNDERSNAKE #9

Protect your rights or "Lose" them
The 2nd Admendment guarantees the others

Wayne

2009-12-04 16:31:27 UTC