Toyota Corolla May Be Recalled over Steering Problem

[john]

Many owners have posted about steering problems here, and guess what?
There is a problem and Corolla may be recalled!

"Some Corolla drivers in the U.S. have reported experiencing a loss of
steering control, typically occurring at higher speeds.

Sasaki says Toyota has received less than 100 complaints about
steering issues in the Corolla. At the same Japanese press conference
where Sasaki spoke, TMC President Akio Toyoda said he does not plan to
visit to the U.S. next week to appear at two U.S. government hearings.

“I trust that our officials in the U.S. will amply answer the
questions,” Toyoda is quoted as saying. “We are sending the best
people to the hearing, and I hope to back up the efforts from
headquarters.”

Yoshimi Inaba, Toyota Motor North America president, will appear at a
Feb. 24 hearing of the U.S. House Oversight and Government Reform
Committee, and a Feb. 25 House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing.

Toyoda says he will travel to the U.S. at a later date.

http://wardsauto.com/home/toyota_traffic_corolla_100217/

[john]

Veered sharply at highway speeds? Must be junk design.


"Many of the complaints report that vehicles unexpectedly veered
sharply at highway speeds of 40 miles per hour and above. At least 10
injuries have been alleged."

From The Detroit News:
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20100217/AUTO01/2170373/1148/NHTSA-will-open-formal-investigation-into-Toyota-Corolla#ixzz0fr5N6YyR

[Tegger]

Post by john
Veered sharply at highway speeds? Must be junk design.

Or an unsubstantiated allegation, which most of these "complaints" are at
this point.

You're aware that some half of all collisions are single-vehicle crashes? A
single-vehicle crash is an embarrassing thing to be involved in; it's an
embarrassment leading to the possibility of owners blaming their bad
driving on the car.

Post by john
"Many of the complaints report that vehicles unexpectedly veered
sharply at highway speeds of 40 miles per hour and above. At least 10
injuries have been alleged."

"Alleged". Good word. And they remain "alleged" until proven otherwise. One
can "allege" anything he likes.

If EPS is so bad, how come there were no problems with the MR2's similar
EPS?

[dr_jeff]

Post by Tegger

Post by john
Veered sharply at highway speeds? Must be junk design.

Or an unsubstantiated allegation, which most of these "complaints" are at
this point.

That's true of the brake problems. Apparently, Toyota and the NHTSA
failed to address the reports and take appropriate action, leading to a
big mess.

Post by Tegger
You're aware that some half of all collisions are single-vehicle crashes? A
single-vehicle crash is an embarrassing thing to be involved in; it's an
embarrassment leading to the possibility of owners blaming their bad
driving on the car.

IINM, some of the reports were from people whose cars did not crash.

As computers control more of a car's function, I hope the computers will
keep better data, so that when there is a problem, engineers can upload
the data and determine what really happened.

Post by Tegger

Post by john
"Many of the complaints report that vehicles unexpectedly veered
sharply at highway speeds of 40 miles per hour and above. At least 10
injuries have been alleged."

"Alleged". Good word. And they remain "alleged" until proven otherwise. One
can "allege" anything he likes.
If EPS is so bad, how come there were no problems with the MR2's similar
EPS?

[Tegger]

Post by dr_jeff

Post by Tegger

Post by john
Veered sharply at highway speeds? Must be junk design.

Or an unsubstantiated allegation, which most of these "complaints"
are at this point.

That's true of the brake problems.

It's also true of the new PS thing. The NHTSA has said so.

Post by dr_jeff
Apparently, Toyota and the NHTSA
failed to address the reports and take appropriate action, leading to
a big mess.

The "big mess" is in the media alone. So far, ONE death confirmed as being
specifically due to a stuck gas pedal.

[dr_jeff]

Post by Tegger

Post by dr_jeff

Post by Tegger

Post by john
Veered sharply at highway speeds? Must be junk design.

Or an unsubstantiated allegation, which most of these "complaints"
are at this point.

That's true of the brake problems.

It's also true of the new PS thing. The NHTSA has said so.

Post by dr_jeff
Apparently, Toyota and the NHTSA
failed to address the reports and take appropriate action, leading to
a big mess.

The "big mess" is in the media alone. So far, ONE death confirmed as being
specifically due to a stuck gas pedal.

How do you confirm that a death is due to a stuck gas pedal? Do you have
to call in to 9-1-1 and say that you're going to die from a stuck gas
pedal? A stuck gas pedal is a really hard thing to confirm.

[Tegger]

Post by dr_jeff

Post by Tegger
The "big mess" is in the media alone. So far, ONE death confirmed as
being specifically due to a stuck gas pedal.

How do you confirm that a death is due to a stuck gas pedal? Do you
have to call in to 9-1-1 and say that you're going to die from a stuck
gas pedal? A stuck gas pedal is a really hard thing to confirm.

OK, then we have NO deaths confirmed as being due to a stuck gas pedal.

What a witch-hunt.

[jim beam]

Post by Tegger

Post by dr_jeff

Post by Tegger
The "big mess" is in the media alone. So far, ONE death confirmed as
being specifically due to a stuck gas pedal.

How do you confirm that a death is due to a stuck gas pedal? Do you
have to call in to 9-1-1 and say that you're going to die from a stuck
gas pedal? A stuck gas pedal is a really hard thing to confirm.

OK, then we have NO deaths confirmed as being due to a stuck gas pedal.
What a witch-hunt.

you should be able to recover the last 30 seconds of data from the
engine computer - that should tell you speed, throttle position, etc.
and whether throttle position stayed fixed. but even that doesn't
confirm with certainty - maybe the guy was having a heart attack and had
his foot pressed down in pain.

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by Tegger
OK, then we have NO deaths confirmed as being due to a stuck gas pedal.
What a witch-hunt.

you should be able to recover the last 30 seconds of data from the engine
computer - that should tell you speed, throttle position, etc. and whether
throttle position stayed fixed.

Thank you. There are some thinking people here...

(God, Jim, ever think I'd be patting you on the back? ;) )

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

(Cross posting deleted, automatically)

Post by Tegger
OK, then we have NO deaths confirmed as being due to a stuck gas pedal.
What a witch-hunt????
--
Tegger

Can we assume you have not seen the news lately, if that is what you
choose to believe.
Search "Toyota Class Action Litigation" and you will find numerous
Law firms form consortium in Toyota recall litigation Posted On: Feb. 11,
2010 2:24 PM CENTRAL | Add a comment Roberto Ceniceros
SAN DIEGO—About 25 law firms seeking class action status for lawsuits
filed against Toyota Motor Corp. in more than 20 states have formed a
consortium, an attorney coordinating the group said Thursday.
"Approximately 20 other lawsuits seeking class action status on behalf of
consumers also have been filed against the automaker because of
accelerator problems that have led to the recall of more than 8 million
automobiles.
Those 40 suits do not include individual personal injury claims that
consumers have filed against Toyota.
Tim Howard, coordinator of the Attorneys Toyota Action Consortium, said a
court hearing on whether all the class action cases will be consolidated
is expected March 25 before a multidistrict panel in U.S. District Court
in San Diego.
Mr. Howard is a professor of law and policy at Northeastern University and
an attorney at Howard Associates P.A. in Tallahassee, Fla.
The lawsuits seeking class action status share common allegations that
consumers lost value in and the use of their cars because of defective
parts that sparked the recall.
Total damages sought in the consolidated class actions could exceed $2
billion, based on a calculation that millions of cars lost hundreds of
dollars in value and their owners lost the use of their cars while they
were unsafe to drive or were being repaired, Mr. Howard said.
The value is diminished “because once someone knows your car might be a
poltergeist car, people don’t have to take that kind of risk,” Mr.
Howard said. “They can find other cars on the market. Even if they solve
(the problems), that lingering fear is going to affect the consciousness
of the consumer.”
Toyota also is facing securities-related class action litigation.
For example, the San Diego-based law firm of Coughlin Stoia Geller Rudman
& Robbins L.L.P. said Monday that it had filed a lawsuit in the U.S.
District Court for the Central District of California on behalf of people
who purchased Toyota securities between Aug. 4, 2009, and Feb. 2, 2010.
The complaint alleges that Toyota and some of its officers and directors
misled investors by failing to disclose design defects, causing its stock
to trade at artificially inflated prices during the class period.

And no where is data taken from the ECU mentioned.

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by dr_jeff

Post by Tegger

Post by dr_jeff

Post by Tegger

Post by john
Veered sharply at highway speeds? Must be junk design.

Or an unsubstantiated allegation, which most of these "complaints" are
at this point.

That's true of the brake problems.

It's also true of the new PS thing. The NHTSA has said so.

Post by dr_jeff
Apparently, Toyota and the NHTSA
failed to address the reports and take appropriate action, leading to a
big mess.

The "big mess" is in the media alone. So far, ONE death confirmed as
being specifically due to a stuck gas pedal.

How do you confirm that a death is due to a stuck gas pedal? Do you have
to call in to 9-1-1 and say that you're going to die from a stuck gas
pedal? A stuck gas pedal is a really hard thing to confirm.

Not really. The ECU stores throttle position information and engine revs
for something like three cycles. It would be very easy to determine which
deaths were caused by a fault in the system and which were just poor
driving habits.

Nobody has really presented any hard evidence. When someone does I might
change my stance on Toyota's Mea Culpa.

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by john
Many owners have posted about steering problems here, and guess what?
There is a problem and Corolla may be recalled!

The only problems with the Corolla's steering is the nut behind the wheel...

Moron.

[ransley]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by john
Many owners have posted about steering problems here, and guess what?
There is a problem and Corolla may be recalled!

The only problems with the Corolla's steering is the nut behind the wheel...
Moron.

Right , defend toyota at all costs eveybody is a dumb ass but you and
toyota. You know even here on this group people asked questions on
their corrola steering maybe a year ago long before anything was even
though of as a defect. Just keep you head in the mud hachi and stay in
denial.

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by ransley

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

Post by john
Many owners have posted about steering problems here, and guess what?
There is a problem and Corolla may be recalled!

The only problems with the Corolla's steering is the nut behind the wheel...
Moron.

Right , defend toyota at all costs eveybody is a dumb ass but you and
toyota. You know even here on this group people asked questions on their
corrola steering maybe a year ago long before anything was even though of
as a defect. Just keep you head in the mud hachi and stay in denial.

Who says it's a defect?

[jim beam]

Post by john
Many owners have posted about steering problems here, and guess what?
There is a problem and Corolla may be recalled!

"may be"??? some owners are doubtless reporting indigestion at all the
crap union shills like you are trying to jam down their throats. but
only gullible fools will listen to mere allegation without proof.

Post by john
"Some Corolla drivers in the U.S. have reported experiencing a loss of
steering control, typically occurring at higher speeds.

how about some media and paid usenet shillsters experiencing a loss of
credibility and integrity?

Post by john
Sasaki says Toyota has received less than 100 complaints about
steering issues in the Corolla. At the same Japanese press conference
where Sasaki spoke, TMC President Akio Toyoda said he does not plan to
visit to the U.S. next week to appear at two U.S. government hearings.

you say that like it's some kind of negative thing. i wouldn't
voluntary show up in front of a tar and feather crown either.
especially when all they have to go on is hysteria and herd instinct.

Post by john
�I trust that our officials in the U.S. will amply answer the
questions,� Toyoda is quoted as saying.

i'm sure they will. answers will be technically correct.

Post by john
�We are sending the best
people to the hearing, and I hope to back up the efforts from
headquarters.�
Yoshimi Inaba, Toyota Motor North America president, will appear at a
Feb. 24 hearing of the U.S. House Oversight and Government Reform
Committee, and a Feb. 25 House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing.
Toyoda says he will travel to the U.S. at a later date.

so what? he's not been invited or requested to show at any hearings.

Post by john
http://wardsauto.com/home/toyota_traffic_corolla_100217/

keep cranking that propaganda handle buddy - if you keep repeating the
bullshit, someone is bound to believe you.

[n***@wt.net]

Post by john
Many owners have posted about steering problems here, and guess what?
There is a problem and Corolla may be recalled!
"Some Corolla drivers in the U.S. have reported experiencing a loss of
steering control, typically occurring at higher speeds.

This issue is nothing new, and none that tell the truth claim a loss
of steering control. They don't like the "feel" of it. I've never seen
one
claim a loss of steering control yet. Only that they don't like the
feel
when driving at highway speeds. It doesn't feel quite the same as the
older pump driven assist.
Even if the electric assist failed, you would not lose steering
control.
This issue is nothing new and has been reported here since the new 09
versions came out.

[Tegger]

Post by john
Many owners have posted about steering problems here, and guess what?
There is a problem and Corolla may be recalled!
"Some Corolla drivers in the U.S. have reported experiencing a loss of
steering control, typically occurring at higher speeds.

The witch-hunt continues...

There's no problem with the steering other than a "feel" that people aren't
used to.

Odd how nobody complained about the EPS that was available on the MR2 for
years; the new Corolla's system is similar to that.

[n***@wt.net]

Post by Tegger

Post by john
Many owners have posted about steering problems here, and guess what?
There is a problem and Corolla may be recalled!
"Some Corolla drivers in the U.S. have reported experiencing a loss of
steering control, typically occurring at higher speeds.

The witch-hunt continues...
There's no problem with the steering other than a "feel" that people aren't
used to.
Odd how nobody complained about the EPS that was available on the MR2 for
years; the new Corolla's system is similar to that.
--
Tegger

I've always speculated it was just something that needed to be
reprogrammed. It's not a safety issue per say.. It just aggravates
people when they are on the highway. Myself, I think most of the
problem is there is likely too much assist at highway speeds, and
it needs to be toned down a bit.
On a normal variable assist steering, there should be a good
amount of assist at slow speeds, but very little if any at highway
speeds. At speed, you want to mimic the feel of a non assisted
rack and pinion.
I've always felt they must be running too much assist at speed
if it feels squirrely assuming the alignment is right.
It's nothing that is dangerous. It's not like the steering is going
to unhook and let you smash a guard rail.. :/ Good grief....

[ChrisCoaster]

Post by n***@wt.net
On a normal variable assist steering, there should be a good
amount of assist at slow speeds, but very little if any at highway
speeds. At speed, you want to mimic the feel of a non assisted
rack and pinion.
- Show quoted text -

something Loading Image...
has more than mastered!

Now why can't they do that for the MASSES?

(us po' folks!)

-CCoaster

[Tegger]

Post by n***@wt.net
Myself, I think most of the
problem is there is likely too much assist at highway speeds, and
it needs to be toned down a bit.

There is NO assist at highway speeds. Assist is NOT NEEDED at highway
speeds. Assist picks up at speeds where you might actually have to crank
the wheel around with some authority, like at 10mph around a left-hand
turn, or when maneuvering into a parking space.

This whole matter is ludicrously insane, a bizarre Alice-In-Wonderland
nut-fest; powered, I suspect, by the tort bar, and by the unions (who hate
Toyota with the sort of red-haze death-lust that Ted Bundy must have felt
for his victims).

ANYbody who knows the SLIGHTEST thing about ANY modern power-assisted
steering system cannot help but be appalled by the mystical "evil spirits"
nonsense surrounding this current craze. I am not quite certain WHY this is
happening, but I AM quite certain that it is /wholly/ without foundation.

[n***@wt.net]

Post by Tegger

Post by n***@wt.net
Myself, I think most of the
problem is there is likely too much assist at highway speeds, and
it needs to be toned down a bit.

There is NO assist at highway speeds. Assist is NOT NEEDED at highway
speeds. Assist picks up at speeds where you might actually have to crank
the wheel around with some authority, like at 10mph around a left-hand
turn, or when maneuvering into a parking space.

As I described.. But how do you know there is actually no assist
at highway speeds? Myself, I don't know as I've never driven one of
those 09-10 models.
I think the issue is real, but I do think many are getting a bit
overly lathered up about it. It's not anything that is really
dangerous.
Course, it could be something else that is causing the problem,
like pulsing, etc.. But being I've never driven one, I couldn't
really say.
But I know I've seen a lot of people complain about the feel of them,
where on the other hand, many other models in the past that used
electric assist didn't seem to garner the same complaints.
This leads me to think they programmed something a bit different
if they are using basically the same electric type system.
I've heard of a few that went so far as to trade the car in as they
couldn't stand the feel of it when tracking a straight line on the
highway.
But.. Some with those years don't notice any problem..
Go figure.. :/

[Tegger]

Post by n***@wt.net

Post by Tegger

Post by n***@wt.net
Myself, I think most of the
problem is there is likely too much assist at highway speeds, and
it needs to be toned down a bit.

There is NO assist at highway speeds. Assist is NOT NEEDED at highway
speeds. Assist picks up at speeds where you might actually have to
crank the wheel around with some authority, like at 10mph around a
left-hand turn, or when maneuvering into a parking space.

As I described.. But how do you know there is actually no assist
at highway speeds? Myself, I don't know as I've never driven one of
those 09-10 models.

Variable boost has been around since at least 1990, and EPS since about
then as well. It's old technology at this point.

Variable boost was introduced in order to improve the "feel" of power
steering at speed. Old-style non-variable power steering can feel "floaty"
and touchy at highway speeds.

If the boost in this case is not precisely zero at highway speeds, it's
awfully close to that. How far and fast do you ever need to turn the
steering wheel at 40+ mph? You'd roll the car.

I have a strong suspicion that, were it not for the other problems
besetting Toyota right now, the EPS thing would be a "nothing" issue.

[jim beam]

Post by Tegger

Post by n***@wt.net

Post by Tegger

Post by n***@wt.net
Myself, I think most of the
problem is there is likely too much assist at highway speeds, and
it needs to be toned down a bit.

There is NO assist at highway speeds. Assist is NOT NEEDED at highway
speeds. Assist picks up at speeds where you might actually have to
crank the wheel around with some authority, like at 10mph around a
left-hand turn, or when maneuvering into a parking space.

As I described.. But how do you know there is actually no assist
at highway speeds? Myself, I don't know as I've never driven one of
those 09-10 models.

Variable boost has been around since at least 1990, and EPS since about
then as well. It's old technology at this point.
Variable boost was introduced in order to improve the "feel" of power
steering at speed. Old-style non-variable power steering can feel "floaty"
and touchy at highway speeds.
If the boost in this case is not precisely zero at highway speeds, it's
awfully close to that. How far and fast do you ever need to turn the
steering wheel at 40+ mph? You'd roll the car.
I have a strong suspicion that, were it not for the other problems
besetting Toyota right now, the EPS thing would be a "nothing" issue.

i've driven this eps, and it's a TOTAL non-issue. in fact, i think it's
a great system - i've considered a retrofit to my civic because i like
it so much.

as for complaints, it's like the person that posted on a.a.honda a while
back complaining that when they were braking, the car wouldn't turn -
some people just don't understand basic physics and they didn't realize
that tire friction used in braking wasn't available for changing
direction. and that the problem gets worse when the road is wet, muddy,
icy, etc.