Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord

[Otis]

General questions which is why I included five NG's.

I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).

The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
told me to (cross to front as the manual said).

Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
guess.
I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
wanted
to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
*turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
if they
got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
think
I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
*worse*
than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.

And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....

I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
little
on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.

Loading Image...

[jim beam]

Post by Otis
General questions which is why I included five NG's.
I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
guess.
I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
wanted
to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
*turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
if they
got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
think
I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
*worse*
than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.

very common mistake. and one that allows the unscrupulous to soak you
for new brakes more often than not.

never allow any wheel monkey to re-bolt your wheels with air tools -
should always be done by hand using a torque wrench.

Post by Otis
And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
little
on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt116/LyraVic/?action=view¤t=GEDC0178.jpg

[Observer]

Post by jim beam

Post by Otis
General questions which is why I included five NG's.
I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
guess.
I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
wanted
to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
*turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
if they
got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
think
I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
*worse*
than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.

very common mistake. and one that allows the unscrupulous to soak you
for new brakes more often than not.
never allow any wheel monkey to re-bolt your wheels with air tools -
should always be done by hand using a torque wrench.

Yeah but when you replace tires, a lot of shops use air tools. I
don't recall any checking the tires with a torque wrench. I do agree
with another poster that many shops over torque.

[Steve]

Post by Observer
Yeah but when you replace tires, a lot of shops use air tools. I
don't recall any checking the tires with a torque wrench. I do agree
with another poster that many shops over torque.

Standard practice these days is to snug the bolts with an air wrench and
a torque-limit stick, then do the final torque-down with a torque wrench.

Actually most shops have been doing that for 10+ years now. Time flies.


With my own cars in my own garage, I just use my air wrench because I
have a very good feel for the correct torque with that wrench at the air
line pressure setting I run. Every so often I check myself with a torque
wrench and I'm never off by more than a couple of ft-lb. But you can't
do that in a shop where you grab a different air wrench every time or
you change a tire. Also most of my cars are old enough to be rear-drives
with integral hub-rotor assemblies instead of "top hat" rotors that
slide over the wheel studs like FWD cars. They are far less sensitive to
over-torquing because the hub/rotor assembly is so much beefier and
doesn't have an alignment issue if you torque one stud/nut down too hard
before the other side gets torqued.

[hls]

Post by Steve
Standard practice these days is to snug the bolts with an air wrench and
a torque-limit stick, then do the final torque-down with a torque wrench.
Actually most shops have been doing that for 10+ years now. Time flies.

I have had discs warped on more than one occasion by the TorxStik approach.
They are NOT failsafe.

If you want to be sure, ask them to torque the nuts on with a manual torque
wrench, and specify that they use the star pattern suggested by most
manufacturers. Then you are sure.

[jim beam]

Post by Steve

Yeah but when you replace tires, a lot of shops use air tools. I
don't recall any checking the tires with a torque wrench. I do agree
with another poster that many shops over torque.

Standard practice these days is to snug the bolts with an air wrench and
a torque-limit stick, then do the final torque-down with a torque wrench.
Actually most shops have been doing that for 10+ years now. Time flies.
With my own cars in my own garage, I just use my air wrench because I
have a very good feel for the correct torque with that wrench at the air
line pressure setting I run. Every so often I check myself with a torque
wrench and I'm never off by more than a couple of ft-lb. But you can't
do that in a shop where you grab a different air wrench every time or
you change a tire. Also most of my cars are old enough to be rear-drives
with integral hub-rotor assemblies instead of "top hat" rotors that
slide over the wheel studs like FWD cars. They are far less sensitive to
over-torquing because the hub/rotor assembly is so much beefier and
doesn't have an alignment issue if you torque one stud/nut down too hard
before the other side gets torqued.

indeed - one of the reasons the heavier more powerful accord didn't
transition to that style of disk for years after the civic did.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Observer
Yeah but when you replace tires, a lot of shops use air tools. I
don't recall any checking the tires with a torque wrench. I do agree
with another poster that many shops over torque.

Some use the sticks, some use torque wrenches, some don't use either one.
Most will use torque wrenches if you ask them politely. Tipping helps, too.
It takes a little more time to do it right.
--scott

[Fatter Than Ever Moe]

Post by Otis
General questions which is why I included five NG's.
I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
guess.
I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
wanted
to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
*turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
if they
got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
think
I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
*worse*
than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
little
on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt116/LyraVic/?action=view¤t=GEDC0178.jpg

A classic wheel/tire/brake problem. First, the rim has to be within
tolerances when bolted to the car it has to run true. This can be
checked on the car with a dial indicator. Then the tire has to within
tolerances and this is the hard one to check. Balancing the tire is
easy but if the tire has bad belts or some kind of defect it can do
really strange things and shimmy is one of them. The brakes should be
the easiest. With the rotor on the car it's checked for run out and
Honda once had a bulletin about truing the rotor while on the car.
I sounds like you have something out of round or out of balance and a
brake problem.
Hunter is probably the best for finding and fixing these things.
Once you get your brake shimmy problem solved taking it easy on stops
will keep the problem from reoccurring.
Here some reading for you,
http://www.hunter.com/PUB/undercar/index.htm
Tire Rack has a lot of good information
http://tires.tirerack.com/search?p=Q&lbc=tirerack&uid=616724913&ts=custom&w=Rims&af=cat:tiretech&isort=score&method=and&view=list
What I'd do if I were you would be to find a good suspension shop and
have it all checked out. What I'd do if it were me would be to get the
old dial indicator out and start checking things out. And a long hard
stop generates a lot of heat, a whole lot of heat on the rotors and is
the best way I know to warp them.

[Sharx35]

Post by Otis
General questions which is why I included five NG's.
I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
guess.
I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
wanted
to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
*turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
if they
got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
think
I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
*worse*
than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
little
on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt116/LyraVic/?action=view¤t=GEDC0178.jpg

Who gives a FUCK about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a FUCKING Toyota
newsgroup. Get the fuck out.

[hls]

Post by Sharx35
Who gives a FUCK about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a FUCKING Toyota
newsgroup. Get the fuck out.

Did the next to the last man on earth die and leave you his position of
authority?

[Sharx35]

Post by hls

Post by Sharx35
Who gives a FUCK about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a FUCKING Toyota
newsgroup. Get the fuck out.

Did the next to the last man on earth die and leave you his position of
authority?

Indeed, yes. The rest of you are pansy, Honda-driving faggots.

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Post by Sharx35

Post by hls

Post by Sharx35
Who gives a FUCK about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a FUCKING Toyota
newsgroup. Get the fuck out.

Did the next to the last man on earth die and leave you his position of
authority?

Indeed, yes. The rest of you are pansy, Honda-driving faggots.

...says the ricemobile driver Sharx.

[hls]

Post by Sharx35

Post by hls

Post by Sharx35
Who gives a FUCK about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a FUCKING Toyota
newsgroup. Get the fuck out.

Did the next to the last man on earth die and leave you his position of
authority?

Indeed, yes. The rest of you are pansy, Honda-driving faggots.

I dont drive a Honda, but have every right to post here if I wish, and I
WILL
if I wish, psycho.

[Jeff Strickland]

Post by hls

Post by Sharx35

Post by hls

Post by Sharx35
Who gives a FUCK about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a FUCKING Toyota
newsgroup. Get the fuck out.

Did the next to the last man on earth die and leave you his position of
authority?

Indeed, yes. The rest of you are pansy, Honda-driving faggots.

I dont drive a Honda, but have every right to post here if I wish, and I
WILL
if I wish, psycho.

You'll derive much more satisfaction if you Block Sharx.

He seldom adds anything beyond poorly chosen and worn out profanity. He has
hit a couple of homeruns, I'll give him that. But the strikeouts out number
the good hits by a very wide margin. Nobody would remember Babe Ruth if the
only hit he got was the one where he pointed to the outfield fence on a full
count. That's pretty much Sharx's profile ...


Having said all of that, I can't help but wonder why none of the Honda
forums are included in your crosspost.

[hls]

Post by Jeff Strickland
Having said all of that, I can't help but wonder why none of the Honda
forums are included in your crosspost.

Because I dont go through and edit the newsgroups addresses, I guess.
Maybe my newsgroup supplier filters them. I havent a clue.

I dont have a Honda. My son is the Honda fan. My wife and I primarily
drive Toyotas now, have about 7-8 different cars on the tax roles.

I test drove Hondas the last couple of times we bought new cars, but they
had a harsher ride feel than the Toyotas IMO. Nice, but not my cuppa...

People like Sharx35 are probably best ignored. I have killfiled Mike Hunt
over many newsgroups.

[Sharx35]

Post by hls

Post by Sharx35

Post by hls

Post by Sharx35
Who gives a FUCK about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a FUCKING Toyota
newsgroup. Get the fuck out.

Did the next to the last man on earth die and leave you his position of
authority?

Indeed, yes. The rest of you are pansy, Honda-driving faggots.

I dont drive a Honda, but have every right to post here if I wish, and I
WILL
if I wish, psycho.

Suck dick, DEMONrat LIEbrawl.

[Elder]

Post by Sharx35
Indeed, yes. The rest of you are pansy, Honda-driving faggots.

Wanna remove your pov spec Toyota out of the Luxury lane, you are
blocking the progress of the Lexus drivers.

[Steve]

Post by Sharx35

Post by Otis
General questions which is why I included five NG's.
I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
guess.
I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
wanted
to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
*turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
if they
got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
think
I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
*worse*
than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
little
on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt116/LyraVic/?action=view¤t=GEDC0178.jpg

Who gives a FUCK about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a FUCKING Toyota
newsgroup. Get the fuck out.

One ricemobile owner dissing another ricemobile of a different flavor.
That right there is FUNNY.

[Sharx35]

Post by Steve

Post by Sharx35

Post by Otis
General questions which is why I included five NG's.
I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
guess.
I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
wanted
to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
*turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
if they
got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
think
I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
*worse*
than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
little
on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt116/LyraVic/?action=view¤t=GEDC0178.jpg

Who gives a FUCK about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a FUCKING Toyota
newsgroup. Get the fuck out.

One ricemobile owner dissing another ricemobile of a different flavor.
That right there is FUNNY.

In these parts, Hondas are the favorite vehicles of Asian gang members.

[Steve]

Post by Sharx35

Post by Steve
One ricemobile owner dissing another ricemobile of a different flavor.
That right there is FUNNY.

In these parts, Hondas are the favorite vehicles of Asian gang members.

Honda == Toyota for all practical purposes. Who cares?

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Post by Sharx35
Who gives a FUCK about your Accord RICEMOBILE? This is a FUCKING Toyota
newsgroup.

Ah. Toyota ricemobiles only.

Gotcha.

[Jeff Strickland]

Post by Otis
General questions which is why I included five NG's.
I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
guess.
I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
wanted
to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
*turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
if they
got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
think
I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
*worse*
than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
little
on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt116/LyraVic/?action=view¤t=GEDC0178.jpg

I hate to say this, but I've gotta wonder at the suspension issues you
describe, and coupled with the body panel alignment that Honda normally gets
done with near precision, has your car been wrecked or dropped off the truck
or some other significant trauma happened before you bought the car? (I like
to think that if the trauma happened after you bought the car, you'd
remember ... )

The shaking when you apply the brakes is typically the result of warped
brake rotors. One would not expect this to be the case on a brand new car,
but warped rotors should be a strong consideration. Warped rotors can easily
exist without grooves, and in such cases, they can be machined true again.

You have a brand new car that demonstrated semi-significant issues the day
you drove it off of the lot.

If you drive on a straight section of freeway and take your hands off the
steering wheel, does the car proceed straight for at least one-quarter mile,
or does it veer off track to either the left or the right.

NOTE: If the car gently drifts to the right, this can be the result of the
slope of the roadway that carries water to the right shoulder. This sloping
can vary from one location on the freeway to another, so it would be
reasonable to do the test is several places and note any changes.

NOTE 2: When I say, take your hands off of the steering wheel, I'm not
suggesting you set the autopilot and climb into the back seat, letting the
car go on its merry way. You also need to be cognizant of the movements of
the other cars, and not ride down the freeway hands-free in traffic. Just
hold you hands above the wheel and let the car go straight by itself, if it
can. If the car does not go straight, then you need to hold the wheel again.

The shaking can also be the result of damaged suspension components, struts,
control arms, rack & pinion, and so on. It can also be an out of balance
tire, but this condition would not change simply because you applied the
brakes. Suspension component problems would change through the application
of the brakes.

None of the problems you describe is severe when taken in isolation, but
when they are all combined they paint a very ugly picture. I hope the
picture is not real, but if it is, you deserve redress. You describe a host
of relatively minor, and normal, issues that happen over time, but you
describe them from the very first day of ownership, and this is alarming.

I have owned several Hondas -- '82 Accord, '86 Accord DX, and '89 Accord
LXi -- all of them became high-mileage cars (over 200K). That's not true,
the '86 was t-boned on the passenger's side and was a total loss. Honda
builds excellent cars, but yours seems to fall well short of "excellent."

I'd be writing a friendly letter to Honda America explaining that your car
has had a shimmy from the very first day that has gotten worse over time,
and that the hood alignment is not right. Taken individually, not big
issues, but taken together is very alarming and you have to wonder if the
car has a history that was not part of the bargain you struck with the
dealership. Include the VIN number. The car could have "port damage" that
the dealership never knew about, or the car could have been out on a test
drive and somebody drove it over a curb. Lots of things could be true, or
not. But you have a host of issues that might be related to events before
you took delivery.

You might have a Lemon Law car.

[HowardH]

Post by Otis
General questions which is why I included five NG's.
I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
guess.
I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
wanted
to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
*turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
if they
got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
think
I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
*worse*
than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
little
on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt116/LyraVic/?action=view¤t=GEDC0178.jpg

Don't discount the fact you may have a bad axle. Very rare but it does
happen.
Be careful on what you do yourself to try to fix your shimmy problem. If it
doesn't fix the problem and you then go to your dealer he may see that
you've tampered with it and assume you caused the problem with the work
you've done. If in the course of diagnosis at your dealership they rebalance
your tires ask if they have a wheel balancer that measures "road force
variation". This usually measures a pull to one side or another due to a
defect in manufacturing of the tire and can often indicate an out of round
condition on a tire that may cause your problem.
If I were you I'd have the hood realigned. Someone else might notice the
different gap and assume you've been in an accident. It's an easy fix of
loosening the bolts on the hood hinges and realigning.
Also, if it were mine I'd want my new car to run and look like a new car.
Good luck.

[Otis]

Post by HowardH

Post by Otis
General questions which is why I included five NG's.
I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
I decided to let it go and forget about it.  Still, you don't expect
this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
Michelins.   The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
it is mild.   I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
were somehow not completely balanced at the factory.  And maybe
crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse.  That's my
guess.
I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
wanted
to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
*turn* the rotors.   Why?   I've never had rotors turned in my life;
if they
got too grooved I'd just replace them.   Considering the time, and his
talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now.   Do you
think
I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)?  I could
just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
*worse*
than before.   I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop.  We
were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
corresponding gap on the right side of the hood.   And sure enough,
it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed.  He said
that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
been wrecked.   Pic link below.   There is sunlight reflection a
little
on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it.  The gap on
left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right.   The hood
opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
but it does look kind of bad.   What do you guys think?  Should
I complain to Honda about it?   Thanks a lot.
http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt116/LyraVic/?action=view&current...

Don't discount the fact you may have a bad axle. Very rare but it does
happen.
Be careful on what you do yourself to try to fix your shimmy problem. If it
doesn't fix the problem and you then go to your dealer he may see that
you've tampered with it and assume you caused the problem with the work
you've done.

I've decided for now to just live with it. After checking with some
Honda
forums, I've learned that this is not that uncommon, surprisingly.
As I said, it is pretty minor, and I am reluctant to have them start
working on it. But I completely agree with what you said about doing
work and giving Honda an excuse.

Post by HowardH
If I were you I'd have the hood realigned. Someone else might notice the
different gap and assume you've been in an accident. It's an easy fix of
loosening the bolts on the hood hinges and realigning.
Also, if it were mine I'd want my new car to run and look like a new car.
Good luck.

Thanks. As far as the gap thing. Haven't decided. I actually went
to a nearby
dealership and looked at some '09s the other night, checking gaps, and
believe it
or not, I saw other brand new cars on the lot that did not have the
exact same amount
of gap. One of the Accords sitting right out front had nearly the
same problem with
gap that my car has. The difference in gap width was almost as bad
as with mine;
same sides too.

One thing though...you mentioned getting the hood realigned. My body
shop
friend said it would be an easy fix and he mentioned that the
passenger side
fender would just be unbolted and moved in a little. But I pointed
out that if
that was done, the fender would no longer be flush with the door
edge. He then
said something to the effect that that end wouldn't be moved much,
etc. But
in that case, the fender and hood edges would no longer be nicely
parallel,
as they are now..... So what you seem to be saying would make more
sense,
i.e. moving the hood slightly over. Then again, if that were done,
would the
hood still close nice and precise as it does now?

[Ray O]

Post by HowardH

Post by Otis
General questions which is why I included five NG's.
I've actually had the car for almost a year (bought 9-25-08).
The car had a mild steering wheel shimmy at 60-70 mph that
I noticed driving it home from the dealership the day I bought it.
The car had not been sitting on the lot long ( a week or so, being
recently delivered), so I doubt there were flat spots on the tires.
I decided to let it go and forget about it. Still, you don't expect
this with a brand new car with six miles on it and equipped with
Michelins. The shimmy pretty much stayed, but as I said,
it is mild. I rotated the tires at about 6500 miles a couple of
months ago, which is when the little Honda Maintenance Minder
told me to (cross to front as the manual said).
Since then, I've noticed that, along with the usual shimmy, it gets
a good deal worse when I press the brake at highway speeds.
I doubt very seriously that the rotors are warped, but that the wheels
were somehow not completely balanced at the factory. And maybe
crossing the tires at rotation made the effect worse. That's my
guess.
I took the car out to the dlership today, explained, and the guy
wanted
to check the brakes (he said three hours for some reason) and possibly
*turn* the rotors. Why? I've never had rotors turned in my life;
if they
got too grooved I'd just replace them. Considering the time, and his
talking about turning rotors, I decided to hold off for now. Do you
think
I should take the car in and have them at least check the balance
on the wheels (free till the 1 year anniversary of purchase)? I could
just see those guys working on the car, and driving off with it
*worse*
than before. I've had this happen occasionally over the years.
And a-n-o-t-h-e-r thing.....
I was recently talking casually to a guy who runs a body shop. We
were near my Accord and he immediately mentioned that the gap
between the hood and fender on the left was not the same as the
corresponding gap on the right side of the hood. And sure enough,
it wasn't, and very noticeable even though I never noticed. He said
that was very unusual for Honda and even asked me if the car had
been wrecked. Pic link below. There is sunlight reflection a
little
on the left gap, but you should still be able to see it. The gap on
left is noticeably bigger than the one on the right. The hood
opens and closes nicely and everything seems tight and right,
but it does look kind of bad. What do you guys think? Should
I complain to Honda about it? Thanks a lot.
http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt116/LyraVic/?action=view&current...

Don't discount the fact you may have a bad axle. Very rare but it does
happen.
Be careful on what you do yourself to try to fix your shimmy problem. If it
doesn't fix the problem and you then go to your dealer he may see that
you've tampered with it and assume you caused the problem with the work
you've done.

I've decided for now to just live with it. After checking with some
Honda
forums, I've learned that this is not that uncommon, surprisingly.
As I said, it is pretty minor, and I am reluctant to have them start
working on it. But I completely agree with what you said about doing
work and giving Honda an excuse.

Post by HowardH
If I were you I'd have the hood realigned. Someone else might notice the
different gap and assume you've been in an accident. It's an easy fix of
loosening the bolts on the hood hinges and realigning.
Also, if it were mine I'd want my new car to run and look like a new car.
Good luck.

Thanks. As far as the gap thing. Haven't decided. I actually went
to a nearby
dealership and looked at some '09s the other night, checking gaps, and
believe it
or not, I saw other brand new cars on the lot that did not have the
exact same amount
of gap. One of the Accords sitting right out front had nearly the
same problem with
gap that my car has. The difference in gap width was almost as bad
as with mine;
same sides too.

One thing though...you mentioned getting the hood realigned. My body
shop
friend said it would be an easy fix and he mentioned that the
passenger side
fender would just be unbolted and moved in a little. But I pointed
out that if
that was done, the fender would no longer be flush with the door
edge. He then
said something to the effect that that end wouldn't be moved much,
etc. But
in that case, the fender and hood edges would no longer be nicely
parallel,
as they are now..... So what you seem to be saying would make more
sense,
i.e. moving the hood slightly over. Then again, if that were done,
would the
hood still close nice and precise as it does now?

***********
Properly done, yes.

[HowardH]

"So what you seem to be saying would make more sense,
i.e. moving the hood slightly over. Then again, if that were done, would
the
hood still close nice and precise as it does now?"

Yes, it will close normally, if not better.