Hybrid awd

Post by boris
Hi,
I wonder if awd hybrids, like: Lexus RX Hybrid Awd, Toyota Highlander Hybrid
Awd, Ford Escape Hybrid Awd, etc. - can handle snow, ice as well as
non-hybrid awd vehicles. Or (if *real* winter traction needed) is diesel the
way to go? - the goal here is to get better mpg than gasoline-based awd
vehicles can currently achieve.
Thanks,
Boris

If I'm not mistaken they use traction motors like railway locomotives
use only much smaller of course. I don't see why they can't be just as
good as the old non-hybrid design. My concern would be how exposed to
damage are the components, how expensive are they to fix and will the
parts be available for a long time. The technology is moving fast in
this area of hybrid design so components change quickly in my view at
least. I'd hate to see my forty or fifty thousand dollar vehicle
rendered obsolete in a few years because the special design parts are no
longer available.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

2009-07-07 11:13:01 UTC

Post by boris
I wonder if awd hybrids, like: Lexus RX Hybrid Awd, Toyota Highlander Hybrid
Awd, Ford Escape Hybrid Awd, etc. - can handle snow, ice as well as
non-hybrid awd vehicles. Or (if *real* winter traction needed) is diesel the
way to go? - the goal here is to get better mpg than gasoline-based awd
vehicles can currently achieve.
Thanks,
Boris

If I'm not mistaken they use traction motors like railway locomotives
use only much smaller of course.

You're mistaken.

Big Endian

2009-07-07 11:51:27 UTC

If I'm not mistaken they use traction motors like railway locomotives
use only much smaller of course.

You're mistaken.

Then what do they use?

Elmo P. Shagnasty

2009-07-07 13:40:10 UTC

Post by Big Endian
If I'm not mistaken they use traction motors like railway locomotives
use only much smaller of course.

You're mistaken.

Then what do they use?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=prius+drivetrain

John McGaw

2009-07-07 14:15:23 UTC

Post by Big Endian
If I'm not mistaken they use traction motors like railway locomotives
use only much smaller of course.

You're mistaken.

Then what do they use?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=prius+drivetrain

A Prius is not a valid comparison since it is not an AWD vehicle and this
is specifically what the OP called for. In a more valid example, a Lexus
400H in this case, the front wheels can be driven by the gasoline engine
and an electric motor (separately or together) while the rear wheels are
driven exclusively by another electric motor. Thus, "traction motor" is
valid for at least half of the vehicle's drive train.

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

SMS

2009-07-10 22:30:37 UTC

Post by John McGaw
A Prius is not a valid comparison since it is not an AWD vehicle and
this is specifically what the OP called for. In a more valid example, a
Lexus 400H in this case, the front wheels can be driven by the gasoline
engine and an electric motor (separately or together) while the rear
wheels are driven exclusively by another electric motor. Thus, "traction
motor" is valid for at least half of the vehicle's drive train.

Besides the hybrid AWD versus non-hybrid AWD, there's also the issue of
AWD versus 4WD.

I've seen first hand the difference, in snow and ice, between the AWD on
a Honda Pilot, and the 4WD on a Toyota 4Runner. The difference is
dramatic, in favor of the manually selected 4WD versus the automatic AWD.

The Pilot has a lame AWD system which automatically engages the rear
wheels _after_ the system senses loss of traction. You can manually
engage it, but it will disengage over 18 MPH. I've seen people do 360s
in a Pilot on an icy road because by the time the AWD engages it's too
late, and they can't leave it on unless they go really slow.

Ray O

2009-07-11 02:50:49 UTC

Post by SMS

Post by John McGaw
A Prius is not a valid comparison since it is not an AWD vehicle and this
is specifically what the OP called for. In a more valid example, a Lexus
400H in this case, the front wheels can be driven by the gasoline engine
and an electric motor (separately or together) while the rear wheels are
driven exclusively by another electric motor. Thus, "traction motor" is
valid for at least half of the vehicle's drive train.

Besides the hybrid AWD versus non-hybrid AWD, there's also the issue of
AWD versus 4WD.
I've seen first hand the difference, in snow and ice, between the AWD on a
Honda Pilot, and the 4WD on a Toyota 4Runner. The difference is dramatic,
in favor of the manually selected 4WD versus the automatic AWD.
The Pilot has a lame AWD system which automatically engages the rear
wheels _after_ the system senses loss of traction. You can manually engage
it, but it will disengage over 18 MPH. I've seen people do 360s in a Pilot
on an icy road because by the time the AWD engages it's too late, and they
can't leave it on unless they go really slow.\

Fortunately for the OP, the AWD system in Toyotas and Lexus works above 18
MPH.

--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Big Endian

2009-07-07 14:44:00 UTC

Post by Big Endian
If I'm not mistaken they use traction motors like railway locomotives
use only much smaller of course.

You're mistaken.

Then what do they use?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=prius+drivetrain

In the first place I wasn't referring to the prius although they could
be the same principal.

Here's what it says about the Highlander:

Toyota Highlander Hybrid Review
Wikicars, a place to share your automotive knowledge

Driving a Toyota Highlander Hybrid takes some getting used to. All the
controls work the same as in any other Highlander, but the sounds which
emanate and the feel are unique. The Toyota Highlander Hybrid has some
notable differences. After turning the ignition on (by twisting the
key), "READY" lights up on the dashboard. Driving away, the Highlander
Hybrid's computer automatically starts and stops the gas engine as
needed. The Highlander can run on pure battery power at low speeds such
as in stop and go traffic. In instances like these, fuel economy gets
better, which is the exact opposite of conventional vehicles.

Power delivery is nearly instant, and performance levels are within some
of the best available in the crossover SUV segment, Hybrid or otherwise.
The Highlander Hybrid's powertrain is identical to that developed for
the Lexus RX 400h. The dual-cam V6 is modified to utilize an electric
air conditioning compressor and power steering pump instead of
conventional belt driven ones. This modified V6 alone produces 208 HP
and 212 lb-ft of torque. Coupled to the V6 is an electric motor that
turns the front wheels making the equivalent of 167 hp and 247 lb-ft of
torque. All-wheel-drive (AWD) Highlander Hybrid's, have a third electric
motor aboard to drive the rear wheels if and when the Hybrid Synergy
Drive detects slippage in the front wheels. It can respond to conditions
by electronically distributing power from front to rear, reducing power
to the front as the rear traction motor is turned on. That third motor
generates 50 kW, or 68 HP and 98 lb-ft of torque. The sum of all these
powertrains is the equivalent of 268 HP. Supplying electricity to run
the motors is a direct-current nickel metal hydride (Ni-MH) battery,
stored beneath the second-row seat. The electric motor(s) can act as
generators to capture the kinetic energy of heat from braking. It can
then be transformed into electricity when returned to the battery for
recharge."

Traction motors on rail locomotives operate in a similar fashion, the
idea is the same:

"1. What is a diesel locomotive?
Actually, it is more properly called a diesel-electric locomotive. The
concept is relatively simple: An oil-burning engine turns an alternator
or generator which in turn produces electricity that powers traction
motors that connect to the axles of the locomotive. This process is much
more efficient than the external-combustion steam locomotive."

2009-07-07 14:57:56 UTC

First of all, I dont own a hybrid car/suv.

On the HSD at winter time or any given day, the engine will have to
warm up first, so during winter time you may use the engine more often
than normal. But still the hybrid will have better fuel economy during
winter.

The highlander Hybrid is NOT a full time four wheel drive car. But the
rear wheels do have an electric motor than can give traction when
required. The gas-based model of the 4X4 highlander is full time four
wheel drive.
4X4 on demand and fulltime 4X4 is alot different in *real* winter
traction. Even Toyota says " The Highlander Hybrid is not designed to
be driven off-road."

Diesel and hybrid mpg really depends on your trips. If you do a lot of
city driving the Hybrid will be better, if you do mostly highway
driving the diesel is much better.
In our area, diesel is cheaper than regular unleaded and much cheaper
that premium unleaded. consider this when buying a lexus hybrid and a
regular premium gas Rx or consider the diesel Audi or Volkswagen.

john

2009-07-24 02:53:20 UTC

In that case the driver would lose some traction when part of the
system is offline. So systems like the Highlander is not technically
an "AWD" but should be called "4WD". And that's what Toyota calls it.
In any case it applies only to acceleration and not to braking.

Inexperienced drivers lured into a false sense of security are more
likely to get into accidents in 4/AWD, because they think they can
move better but their braking and steering performance are similar to
2WD.

Post by Ed
The highlander Hybrid is NOT a full time four wheel drive car. But the
rear wheels do have an electric motor than can give traction when
required. The gas-based model of the 4X4 highlander is full time four
wheel drive.
4X4 on demand and fulltime 4X4 is alot different in *real* winter
traction. Even Toyota says " The Highlander Hybrid is not designed to
be driven off-road."

Ray O

2009-07-07 16:34:44 UTC

Post by boris
Hi,
I wonder if awd hybrids, like: Lexus RX Hybrid Awd, Toyota Highlander
Hybrid Awd, Ford Escape Hybrid Awd, etc. - can handle snow, ice as well as
non-hybrid awd vehicles. Or (if *real* winter traction needed) is diesel
the way to go? - the goal here is to get better mpg than gasoline-based
awd vehicles can currently achieve.
Thanks,
Boris

AWD hybrids can handle ice and snow as well as non-hybrid AWD vehicles,
although AWD hybrids are not designed for off-road use. Winter traction is
more a function of the type and condition of the tires than the type of
propulsion system. With the same quality tires, you would not notice a
difference in traction between a hybrid and conventional AWD vehicle of the
same model.

--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Squat'n Dive

2009-07-10 21:30:13 UTC

Post by boris
Hi,
I wonder if awd hybrids, like: Lexus RX Hybrid Awd, Toyota Highlander
Hybrid Awd, Ford Escape Hybrid Awd, etc. - can handle snow, ice as well as
non-hybrid awd vehicles. Or (if *real* winter traction needed) is diesel
the way to go? - the goal here is to get better mpg than gasoline-based
awd vehicles can currently achieve.
Thanks,
Boris

Ray O

2009-07-10 22:15:34 UTC

Post by boris
Hi,
I wonder if awd hybrids, like: Lexus RX Hybrid Awd, Toyota Highlander
Hybrid Awd, Ford Escape Hybrid Awd, etc. - can handle snow, ice as well as
non-hybrid awd vehicles. Or (if *real* winter traction needed) is diesel
the way to go? - the goal here is to get better mpg than gasoline-based
awd vehicles can currently achieve.
Thanks,
Boris

In cold climates, theoretically, on a fully charged battery you can
start going right
away versus waiting for ages before the gasoline engine warms up.
With a parallel hybrid at least. And no, despite my claim, I don't
like priuses.

***********
Even in cold climates, it is not necessary to wait for a gasoline engine to
warm up before driving.

--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

2009-07-11 22:17:20 UTC

Post by boris
Hi,
I wonder if awd hybrids, like: Lexus RX Hybrid Awd, Toyota Highlander
Hybrid Awd, Ford Escape Hybrid Awd, etc. - can handle snow, ice as well as
non-hybrid awd vehicles. Or (if *real* winter traction needed) is diesel
the way to go? - the goal here is to get better mpg than gasoline-based
awd vehicles can currently achieve.
Thanks,
Boris

In cold climates, theoretically, on a fully charged battery you can
start going right
away versus waiting for ages before the gasoline engine warms up.
With a parallel hybrid at least. And no, despite my claim, I don't
like priuses.

** why would you wait for ages for the gasoline engine t warm up. It isn't
necessary. Just git up and go.

Zeppo

2009-07-16 14:04:33 UTC

Post by Squat'n Dive

Post by boris
Hi,
I wonder if awd hybrids, like: Lexus RX Hybrid Awd, Toyota Highlander
Hybrid Awd, Ford Escape Hybrid Awd, etc. - can handle snow, ice as well as
non-hybrid awd vehicles. Or (if *real* winter traction needed) is diesel
the way to go? - the goal here is to get better mpg than gasoline-based
awd vehicles can currently achieve.
Thanks,
Boris

In cold climates, theoretically, on a fully charged battery you can
start going right
away versus waiting for ages before the gasoline engine warms up.
With a parallel hybrid at least. And no, despite my claim, I don't
like priuses.
** why would you wait for ages for the gasoline engine t warm up. It
isn't necessary. Just git up and go.

I'm old fashioned. I wait 5 or 6 seconds for oil to get to the top of the
engine before pulling away.

Jon

2009-07-17 00:46:06 UTC

Post by Zeppo

Post by Squat'n Dive

Post by boris
Hi,
I wonder if awd hybrids, like: Lexus RX Hybrid Awd, Toyota Highlander
Hybrid Awd, Ford Escape Hybrid Awd, etc. - can handle snow, ice as well as
non-hybrid awd vehicles. Or (if *real* winter traction needed) is diesel
the way to go? - the goal here is to get better mpg than
gasoline-based
awd vehicles can currently achieve.
Thanks,
Boris

In cold climates, theoretically, on a fully charged battery you can
start going right
away versus waiting for ages before the gasoline engine warms up.
With a parallel hybrid at least. And no, despite my claim, I don't
like priuses.
** why would you wait for ages for the gasoline engine t warm up. It
isn't necessary. Just git up and go.

I'm old fashioned. I wait 5 or 6 seconds for oil to get to the top of the
engine before pulling away.
Jon

And you classifiy that as ages?

ACAR

2009-07-23 02:58:09 UTC