Is it normal for passenger front side to sag 1.5" when 2006 LS430 engine is shut off?

[mcbrue]

Got back from 3 wks in south Fla. Battery nearly run down, but managed
to start it so went shopping with chief shopper and I sat in car and
let it run to charge battery. Noted a qiet noise like a pump running
at times. This was yesterday. Today got in and drove out driveway and
car front bottomed on the end of the driveway where it joins to street
- had never done that before. Parked it and came back out and couple
of friends with me commented it looked low in the front. Drove off and
parked it again and when I came out I noted the right front fender was
down to the level of the tire and the left side wasn't. So I started
it up and drove off to a place I was sure was level, got out and
looked at it and it was level with the motor running. But I was
suspicious, so I drove to stealership and asked the nice young people
there about it. As we talked, the passenger front got lower and lower.
At time when the nice young service writter measured it with a tape
measure, there was about 1.5" difference in height. The wheel well was
closer to the tire on the passenger side, and the top of the tire was
nearly at the opening of the fender. The drivers side was higher, at a
normal height. Service writter called the shop and the expert in the
shop said it is normal for the car to sag when the motor is turned off
and the car compensates for the drivers weight by raising the drivers
side higher than the passenger. I have not noted this height
difference before. Is this actualy true that there is a normal sag to
the right of 1.5" when the engine is shut off? What is the "running
pump" sound I hear likely to be - I did hear it again today.

Anyone else notice this heigth difference or pumping sound?

[GIga]

How does it feel to have a black cloud follow you around everywhere you go?
I've had 17 years of Lexus ownership (mostly LS, latest being hte 600h L),
and never had any problems worth talking about. You've owned ONE for less
than a year, and have had everything under the sun appear to go wrong.
Coincidence? I don't think so...

GIga

Post by mcbrue
Got back from 3 wks in south Fla. Battery nearly run down, but managed
to start it so went shopping with chief shopper and I sat in car and
let it run to charge battery. Noted a qiet noise like a pump running
at times. This was yesterday. Today got in and drove out driveway and
car front bottomed on the end of the driveway where it joins to street
- had never done that before. Parked it and came back out and couple
of friends with me commented it looked low in the front. Drove off and
parked it again and when I came out I noted the right front fender was
down to the level of the tire and the left side wasn't. So I started
it up and drove off to a place I was sure was level, got out and
looked at it and it was level with the motor running. But I was
suspicious, so I drove to stealership and asked the nice young people
there about it. As we talked, the passenger front got lower and lower.
At time when the nice young service writter measured it with a tape
measure, there was about 1.5" difference in height. The wheel well was
closer to the tire on the passenger side, and the top of the tire was
nearly at the opening of the fender. The drivers side was higher, at a
normal height. Service writter called the shop and the expert in the
shop said it is normal for the car to sag when the motor is turned off
and the car compensates for the drivers weight by raising the drivers
side higher than the passenger. I have not noted this height
difference before. Is this actualy true that there is a normal sag to
the right of 1.5" when the engine is shut off? What is the "running
pump" sound I hear likely to be - I did hear it again today.
Anyone else notice this heigth difference or pumping sound?

[mcbrue]

I have owned Lexi since 1993 - they came out in 1992 as I recall. Or
else it was 1992 and they came out in 1991 - whatever. The ES models
have been driven by my wife after the first one. There has allways
been a problem or two with each one. This LS430 is sure to be
considered a great car if you have never driven a true luxury car.
Unfortunately, I have driven true Luxury Cars, and even worse, this
2006 LS430 Ultra has had its radar system go out for $7,000 and there
is a recurrent problem with the sensors on the bumpers. And the lack
of good human engineering in this car is really a monument to poor
planning which has been a major disappointment to me. Now the car sags
to the right when it is shut off and the dealer says that is normal.
It did not do that when I first had it as I recall. I don't remember
it doing that before I left it alone in the garage for 3 weeks. So I
asked this group about it. You feel obligated to attack me rather than
telling me whether or not your ultra models with the variable height
air support systems have had problems like this. Thank you kindly for
your Lexus like service.

[Giga]

blah blah blah

Post by mcbrue
I have owned Lexi since 1993 - they came out in 1992 as I recall. Or
else it was 1992 and they came out in 1991 - whatever. The ES models
have been driven by my wife after the first one. There has allways
been a problem or two with each one. This LS430 is sure to be
considered a great car if you have never driven a true luxury car.
Unfortunately, I have driven true Luxury Cars, and even worse, this
2006 LS430 Ultra has had its radar system go out for $7,000 and there
is a recurrent problem with the sensors on the bumpers. And the lack
of good human engineering in this car is really a monument to poor
planning which has been a major disappointment to me. Now the car sags
to the right when it is shut off and the dealer says that is normal.
It did not do that when I first had it as I recall. I don't remember
it doing that before I left it alone in the garage for 3 weeks. So I
asked this group about it. You feel obligated to attack me rather than
telling me whether or not your ultra models with the variable height
air support systems have had problems like this. Thank you kindly for
your Lexus like service.

[j***@hotmail.com]

Sounds like you have a problem with the variable air suspension system
when there is an uneven sag. And dealers like to blow customers off by
saying everything is normal. So call Toyota's (Lexus) 1-800 number. A
solenoid or valve is probably not working. Is it still covered under
warranty? The 2006?

For me the Toyota Lexus is meant to be the American style ride that
Detroit couldn't build. I didn't think the level of technology is
anything to rave about, and clearly some owners realize that they're
not worth the money they handed Toyota.

Post by mcbrue
Got back from 3 wks in south Fla. Battery nearly run down, but managed
to start it so went shopping with chief shopper and I sat in car and
let it run to charge battery. Noted a qiet noise like a pump running
at times. This was yesterday. Today got in and drove out driveway and
car front bottomed on the end of the driveway where it joins to street
- had never done that before. Parked it and came back out and couple
of friends with me commented it looked low in the front. Drove off and
parked it again and when I came out I noted the right front fender was
down to the level of the tire and the left side wasn't. So I started
it up and drove off to a place I was sure was level, got out and
looked at it and it was level with the motor running. But I was
suspicious, so I drove to stealership and asked the nice young people
there about it. As we talked, the passenger front got lower and lower.
At time when the nice young service writter measured it with a tape
measure, there was about 1.5" difference in height. The wheel well was
closer to the tire on the passenger side, and the top of the tire was
nearly at the opening of the fender. The drivers side was higher, at a
normal height. Service writter called the shop and the expert in the
shop said it is normal for the car to sag when the motor is turned off
and the car compensates for the drivers weight by raising the drivers
side higher than the passenger. I have not noted this height
difference before. Is this actualy true that there is a normal sag to
the right of 1.5" when the engine is shut off? What is the "running
pump" sound I hear likely to be - I did hear it again today.
Anyone else notice this heigth difference or pumping sound?

[DaveW]

Post by j***@hotmail.com
For me the Toyota Lexus is meant to be the American style ride that
Detroit couldn't build. I didn't think the level of technology is
anything to rave about, and clearly some owners realize that they're
not worth the money they handed Toyota.

Ah, the resident expert chimes in.

I think the reason you don't think the level of technology is anything
to rave about may be due to your complete ignorance of the subject.
You seem to enjoy flaunting your lack of knowledge here, how about
some more wild guesses about suspension systems? It's always been
helpful to the group when you make things up and present them as fact.

If you feel the need to come to a Lexus newsgroup and criticize Lexus,
you may want to go in a different direction than "clearly some owners
realize that they're not worth the money". Owner satisfaction and
initial quality surveys put Lexus at or near the top of the list year
after year.

But you wouldn't be interested in that - it's common knowledge and
readily available to anyone who was actually interested in the truth.

[mcbrue]

Hey Dave W! What is your take on the sag in my car? I can tell you
don't approve of anyone who says that Lexus is not perfect, but that
is not particularly usefull unless you need reinforcement of your
decision to buy a Lexus or series of them as some of us have done. The
level of human engineering in the Lexus is low - look at a Mercedes
for comparison. Of course the Mercedes will break down a lot more
often. In the first 25,000 miles that I owned the last MercedesS420, I
had to take it to the dealer 3 or 4 times. Hmmm ... this LS430 has now
had what I consider to be 3 major faults - $7000 radar unit, air
suspension sag which Lexus calls normal, and the random bumper sensor
going off which Lexus declines to cover under warranty. Hmmm ... and
the car was sold to me as new with 500 miles on it - my bad for buying
it like that of course. Hmmmm .... and this "use group" is populated
by "folks" who attack anyone who criticizes a Lexus for having major
faults ...

[DaveW]

Post by mcbrue
Hey Dave W! What is your take on the sag in my car? I can tell you
don't approve of anyone who says that Lexus is not perfect, but that
is not particularly usefull unless you need reinforcement of your
decision to buy a Lexus or series of them as some of us have done.

This johngdole character has repeatedly posted flat-out false
statements about various Lexus models as facts. I don't know his
motivation for this, but it's not "usefull".

He has also posted here in a Lexus newsgroup that people who buy them
are idiots. This is slightly different than saying Lexus isn't
perfect, wouldn't you say?

Post by mcbrue
The level of human engineering in the Lexus is low - look at a Mercedes
for comparison.

I have no idea what that means - are Lexus using monkeys?

Post by mcbrue
Of course the Mercedes will break down a lot more
often. In the first 25,000 miles that I owned the last MercedesS420, I
had to take it to the dealer 3 or 4 times. Hmmm ... this LS430 has now
had what I consider to be 3 major faults - $7000 radar unit, air
suspension sag which Lexus calls normal, and the random bumper sensor
going off which Lexus declines to cover under warranty. Hmmm ... and
the car was sold to me as new with 500 miles on it - my bad for buying
it like that of course. Hmmmm .... and this "use group" is populated
by "folks" who attack anyone who criticizes a Lexus for having major
faults ...

I'd say that it is uncommon to have so many major problems with a
Lexus, and somewhat less uncommon with a Mercedes. Certainly, you're
not the first person who's been unhappy with their Lexus, but it
shouldn't surprise you that other Lexus owners who post here have
noticed that every time you show up here, it's with a generally
sarcastic rant about what a disappointment your car has been.

I think it's time you trade that lemon in for something that was
engineered by humans.

[mcbrue]

Dave W, thank you for your help with my sagging LS430. By human
engineering I meant engineering taking the human factors into account.
The engineering does not do that as well as the german engineering
does. For example, consider the windshield - glass too hard so the
wipers do not wipe cleanly and skip often; wrong angle so there is
lots of glare; a very short band of tint at the top so that too much
sun comes in; and next we can go to the windshield wipers if you want.
And you really should watch out - calling the Japanese engineers non-
humans is really not considered nice anymore.

[St. John Smythe]

...glass too hard so the
wipers do not wipe cleanly and skip often...

Remarkable.

[j***@hotmail.com]

Lexus was intended to imitate the American ride that Detroit hadn't
been able to build. But if GM could build them then why would people
want Lexus?

Even in GM's difficult turnaround the Cadillac division managed to
gain sales in 2007 vs Lexus' decline. The 08 CTS had a 73.5% Sep sales
gain over the 07!!! And Mercedes-Benz C-Class had a 31.2% gain. Well I
guess more people didn't want Lexus.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/ford-gm-toyota-all-sell/story.aspx?guid=%7B5D3BEE1B%2DEABC%2D4642%2DBB8F%2D78339D9574EE%7D&siteid=yhoof
http://thecarblogger.blogspot.com/2007/10/2008-cadillac-cts-leads-sales-numbers.html

Post by mcbrue
Dave W, thank you for your help with my sagging LS430. By human
engineering I meant engineering taking the human factors into account.
The engineering does not do that as well as the german engineering
does. For example, consider the windshield - glass too hard so the
wipers do not wipe cleanly and skip often; wrong angle so there is
lots of glare; a very short band of tint at the top so that too much
sun comes in; and next we can go to the windshield wipers if you want.
And you really should watch out - calling the Japanese engineers non-
humans is really not considered nice anymore.

[DaveW]

Post by j***@hotmail.com
Lexus was intended to imitate the American ride that Detroit hadn't
been able to build. But if GM could build them then why would people
want Lexus?
Even in GM's difficult turnaround the Cadillac division managed to
gain sales in 2007 vs Lexus' decline. The 08 CTS had a 73.5% Sep sales
gain over the 07!!! And Mercedes-Benz C-Class had a 31.2% gain. Well I
guess more people didn't want Lexus.

As usual, you guess wrong. As the saying goes, you use statistics like
a drunken man uses lampposts - for support rather than illumination.

Do you honestly believe Cadillac sells anywhere near as many cars as
Lexus? Not that I think popularity is any measure of quality, but if
you're going to make that argument, you look even more foolish than
usual.

Lexus sells more cars than Mercedes, and *far* more cars than
Cadillac.

And your latest post here is 79% stupider than your previous average.

[GIga]

Careful Dave -- you're getting involved in a battle of wits between unarmed
participants (Mr. Long Dong and the Brew-jerk)! Only bad things can happen
here...

<grin>

GIga

Post by DaveW

Post by j***@hotmail.com
Lexus was intended to imitate the American ride that Detroit hadn't
been able to build. But if GM could build them then why would people
want Lexus?
Even in GM's difficult turnaround the Cadillac division managed to
gain sales in 2007 vs Lexus' decline. The 08 CTS had a 73.5% Sep sales
gain over the 07!!! And Mercedes-Benz C-Class had a 31.2% gain. Well I
guess more people didn't want Lexus.

As usual, you guess wrong. As the saying goes, you use statistics like
a drunken man uses lampposts - for support rather than illumination.
Do you honestly believe Cadillac sells anywhere near as many cars as
Lexus? Not that I think popularity is any measure of quality, but if
you're going to make that argument, you look even more foolish than
usual.
Lexus sells more cars than Mercedes, and *far* more cars than
Cadillac.
And your latest post here is 79% stupider than your previous average.

[j***@hotmail.com]

Back to your question. No, it's not normal. See if the Toyota 800
number can help you. The dealer's Lexus experience sure isn't
working.

Post by mcbrue
Got back from 3 wks in south Fla. Battery nearly run down, but managed
to start it so went shopping with chief shopper and I sat in car and
let it run to charge battery. Noted a qiet noise like a pump running
at times. This was yesterday. Today got in and drove out driveway and
car front bottomed on the end of the driveway where it joins to street
- had never done that before. Parked it and came back out and couple
of friends with me commented it looked low in the front. Drove off and
parked it again and when I came out I noted the right front fender was
down to the level of the tire and the left side wasn't. So I started
it up and drove off to a place I was sure was level, got out and
looked at it and it was level with the motor running. But I was
suspicious, so I drove to stealership and asked the nice young people
there about it. As we talked, the passenger front got lower and lower.
At time when the nice young service writter measured it with a tape
measure, there was about 1.5" difference in height. The wheel well was
closer to the tire on the passenger side, and the top of the tire was
nearly at the opening of the fender. The drivers side was higher, at a
normal height. Service writter called the shop and the expert in the
shop said it is normal for the car to sag when the motor is turned off
and the car compensates for the drivers weight by raising the drivers
side higher than the passenger. I have not noted this height
difference before. Is this actualy true that there is a normal sag to
the right of 1.5" when the engine is shut off? What is the "running
pump" sound I hear likely to be - I did hear it again today.
Anyone else notice this heigth difference or pumping sound?