Psssst - Hey mister - wanna buy a Lexus?

[mcbrue]

But there may be some costs that are higher than normal :

"Maintenance & Repairs
Surprisingly, maintenance and car repairs account for only four
percent of the cost of ownership, Weathers said. The maintenance and
repair cost figures used in Consumer Reports' cost of ownership
comparison were based on information gleaned from more than a million
respondents in its annual Car Reliability Survey.

One notable conclusion reached in the Consumer Reports study is that
Lexus models have relatively high maintenance and repair costs --
primarily due to maintenance alone, even though Lexus owners reported
excellent reliability. The Lexus ES350 racks up an average of $2,300
in maintenance and repair in the first five years. Meanwhile, owners
of a comparable Lincoln MKZ can expect to pay only half that much."

My 06 LS430 Ultra has had about $9000 worth of warranty work done on
it in addition to the incredible $175 oil changes, etc. Oh - by the
way - they do NOT include 4 wheel alignments in that $175 oil change.
My tires are watched by Lexus - fortunately I looked at them today,
couple of weeks after my last oil change - noted the balding strips on
the sides of the tires and the broken knives in the tread. Went over
to see my tire guy and at 25,300 miles have to replace all four of the
tires. Glad I checked before I got on the road Thursday and had a
blowout where the tire disintegrated!

Ah well ... and on we go!

[DaveW]

Post by mcbrue
One notable conclusion reached in the Consumer Reports study is that
Lexus models have relatively high maintenance and repair costs --
primarily due to maintenance alone, even though Lexus owners reported
excellent reliability. The Lexus ES350 racks up an average of $2,300
in maintenance and repair in the first five years. Meanwhile, owners
of a comparable Lincoln MKZ can expect to pay only half that much."

Comparable is in the eye of the beholder...

Post by mcbrue
My 06 LS430 Ultra has had about $9000 worth of warranty work done on
it in addition to the incredible $175 oil changes, etc. Oh - by the
way - they do NOT include 4 wheel alignments in that $175 oil change.
My tires are watched by Lexus - fortunately I looked at them today,
couple of weeks after my last oil change - noted the balding strips on
the sides of the tires and the broken knives in the tread. Went over
to see my tire guy and at 25,300 miles have to replace all four of the
tires. Glad I checked before I got on the road Thursday and had a
blowout where the tire disintegrated!

So, you're shocked that a 4000 lb car with 278 hp needs tires at
25,000 miles? And you believe it's your dealer's responsibility to
tell you?

Worn tires are somewhat different than valve clearances - you don't
need to be a mechanic to know when you need to replace them. And
25,000 miles out of a set of tires for that car isn't bad.

You're clearly very unhappy with that car - why not replace it with
something more to your tastes?

[j***@hotmail.com]

This is an open forum and people are here to discuss the good, bad and
ugly of Toyota's Lexus. If you don't like it you're free to leave.
Nobody is keeping you here.

Of course if Toyota is paying you then you'll have no choice but to
stick around and respond.

Post by DaveW
Comparable is in the eye of the beholder...
So, you're shocked that a 4000 lb car with 278 hp needs tires at
25,000 miles? And you believe it's your dealer's responsibility to
tell you?
Worn tires are somewhat different than valve clearances - you don't
need to be a mechanic to know when you need to replace them. And
25,000 miles out of a set of tires for that car isn't bad.
You're clearly very unhappy with that car - why not replace it with
something more to your tastes?

[St. John Smythe]

Post by j***@hotmail.com
Of course if Toyota is paying you then you'll have no choice but to
stick around and respond.

And if BMW is paying you, we're probably going to be treated to your
positive contributions for some time to come.

Sauce, goose, gander

[DaveW]

Post by j***@hotmail.com
This is an open forum and people are here to discuss the good, bad and
ugly of Toyota's Lexus. If you don't like it you're free to leave.
Nobody is keeping you here.

I asked a simple question. He's been unhappy with that car as long as
he's owned it. Why would he keep it?

Nobody is keeping me here, and as it is an open forum, nobody is
preventing me from asking a perfectly logical question, either. If you
have some kind of problem with that, I suggest you ignore me, as you
do every time I ask you what model car you drive.

Post by j***@hotmail.com
Of course if Toyota is paying you then you'll have no choice but to
stick around and respond.

So I'm on Toyota's payroll if I wonder why someone who can afford to
drive any car they please chooses to keep a Lexus that makes them
unhappy? That seems a stretch, doesn't it?

Tell us again what you think of the MacPherson Struts on the GS models
- maybe nobody will point out this time that they never had them. No
reason for that to stop you from telling us they don't work well, is
it?

Also, what Lexus model is built on the Corolla - or was that some
other ignoramus posting in your name?

So, john, what do you drive?

[j***@hotmail.com]

No way. I'll steer people towards BMW and Mercedes, the true luxury
cars.

The ES is a Camry with different sheet metals. Just what don't people
understand. LS looks like a Camry from a distance. Must be good
styling.

Just curious, why did you buy a Lexus?

Post by mcbrue
"Maintenance & Repairs
Surprisingly, maintenance and car repairs account for only four
percent of the cost of ownership, Weathers said. The maintenance and
repair cost figures used in Consumer Reports' cost of ownership
comparison were based on information gleaned from more than a million
respondents in its annual Car Reliability Survey.
One notable conclusion reached in the Consumer Reports study is that
Lexus models have relatively high maintenance and repair costs --
primarily due to maintenance alone, even though Lexus owners reported
excellent reliability. The Lexus ES350 racks up an average of $2,300
in maintenance and repair in the first five years. Meanwhile, owners
of a comparable Lincoln MKZ can expect to pay only half that much."
My 06 LS430 Ultra has had about $9000 worth of warranty work done on
it in addition to the incredible $175 oil changes, etc. Oh - by the
way - they do NOT include 4 wheel alignments in that $175 oil change.
My tires are watched by Lexus - fortunately I looked at them today,
couple of weeks after my last oil change - noted the balding strips on
the sides of the tires and the broken knives in the tread. Went over
to see my tire guy and at 25,300 miles have to replace all four of the
tires. Glad I checked before I got on the road Thursday and had a
blowout where the tire disintegrated!
Ah well ... and on we go!

[DaveW]

Post by j***@hotmail.com
No way. I'll steer people towards BMW and Mercedes, the true luxury
cars.
The ES is a Camry with different sheet metals. Just what don't people
understand. LS looks like a Camry from a distance. Must be good
styling.
Just curious, why did you buy a Lexus?

Just curious, what is your obsession with Lexus, and what makes you
feel that you're smarter than all those pesky consumer surveys and
expert reviews that see things completely different than you do?

What do you drive, john?

[j***@hotmail.com]

I'm curious. What kind of cheap balding tires were on there that
lasted only 25K miles? I thought no true luxury cars would use junk
tires.

$175 oil change? Is that a synthetic oil change good for 15,000-20,000
miles, like BMW and MB? Of course you wouldn't pay a cent if it's a
BMW -- maintenance is free during the first 4 years/50,000 miles,
including brake pads and wiper blades.

See if a BMW or MB dealer will take that sorry POS LS 430 and give you
sufficient residual value for it.

My condolences.

Post by mcbrue
My 06 LS430 Ultra has had about $9000 worth of warranty work done on
it in addition to the incredible $175 oil changes, etc. Oh - by the
way - they do NOT include 4 wheel alignments in that $175 oil change.
My tires are watched by Lexus - fortunately I looked at them today,
couple of weeks after my last oil change - noted the balding strips on
the sides of the tires and the broken knives in the tread. Went over
to see my tire guy and at 25,300 miles have to replace all four of the
tires. Glad I checked before I got on the road Thursday and had a
blowout where the tire disintegrated!
Ah well ... and on we go!

[DaveW]

Post by j***@hotmail.com
I'm curious. What kind of cheap balding tires were on there that
lasted only 25K miles? I thought no true luxury cars would use junk
tires.

http://www.bmwclassaction.com/index.html

Post by j***@hotmail.com
$175 oil change? Is that a synthetic oil change good for 15,000-20,000
miles, like BMW and MB? Of course you wouldn't pay a cent if it's a
BMW -- maintenance is free during the first 4 years/50,000 miles,
including brake pads and wiper blades.

Yes, it's free! Not built into the price or anything - smart people
would see right through that!

Post by j***@hotmail.com
See if a BMW or MB dealer will take that sorry POS LS 430 and give you
sufficient residual value for it.
My condolences.

What do you drive, john?

[mcbrue]

The original tyres were Dunlop. I put Michelin tyres on it and the car
runs quieter and handles better. Why would a car maker put inferior
tyres on as original equipment?

[St. John Smythe]

Post by mcbrue
The original tyres were Dunlop. I put Michelin tyres on it and the car
runs quieter and handles better. Why would a car maker put inferior
tyres on as original equipment?

I can see it all now...a bunch of Lexus executives sitting around the
boardroom, saying, "Hey, let's use Dunlop tires -- that'll really piss
off McBrue."

[Homer]

You should check Mr. McBrue's old posting on the Mercedes-Benz's Newsgroup.
You will find out that he know what he is talking about.

Post by St. John Smythe

Post by mcbrue
The original tyres were Dunlop. I put Michelin tyres on it and the car
runs quieter and handles better. Why would a car maker put inferior
tyres on as original equipment?

I can see it all now...a bunch of Lexus executives sitting around the
boardroom, saying, "Hey, let's use Dunlop tires -- that'll really piss off
McBrue."
--
sjs

[01dyna]

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 05:14:30 GMT, "Homer"

Post by Homer
You should check Mr. McBrue's old posting on the Mercedes-Benz's Newsgroup.
You will find out that he know what he is talking about.

he's an absolute nutcase. And if you believe a word he says, you're
no better off than him.

Post by Homer

Post by St. John Smythe

Post by mcbrue
The original tyres were Dunlop. I put Michelin tyres on it and the car
runs quieter and handles better. Why would a car maker put inferior
tyres on as original equipment?

I can see it all now...a bunch of Lexus executives sitting around the
boardroom, saying, "Hey, let's use Dunlop tires -- that'll really piss off
McBrue."
--
sjs

[Homer]

I think a little research will prove wrong. There are plenty of messages
well docemented for years to and from him in the Mercedes-Benz Newsgroup.
You will find the Mercedes' owners have a lot of respect for Mr. McBrue.

Post by 01dyna
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 05:14:30 GMT, "Homer"

Post by Homer
You should check Mr. McBrue's old posting on the Mercedes-Benz's Newsgroup.
You will find out that he know what he is talking about.

he's an absolute nutcase. And if you believe a word he says, you're
no better off than him.

Post by Homer

Post by St. John Smythe

Post by mcbrue
The original tyres were Dunlop. I put Michelin tyres on it and the car
runs quieter and handles better. Why would a car maker put inferior
tyres on as original equipment?

I can see it all now...a bunch of Lexus executives sitting around the
boardroom, saying, "Hey, let's use Dunlop tires -- that'll really piss off
McBrue."
--
sjs

[01dyna]

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:20:00 -0700, "Homer"

Post by Homer
I think a little research will prove wrong. There are plenty of messages
well docemented for years to and from him in the Mercedes-Benz Newsgroup.
You will find the Mercedes' owners have a lot of respect for Mr. McBrue.

wonderful, then how about if he packs up and moves to his adoring fans
over there?

Most people here and opted to just killfile him.

[mcbrue]

Thank you for your kind words Homer. The biggest problem with the MB
turned out to be its reliability. So I decided to try the Lexus as I
had minimal difficulties with the two ES class cars. Now ... hmmmm ...
enginering for show instead of go ... high costs of operation and Oh
Those El Cheapo Oil jobs every couple of weeks ...

As to my new "friend" 01dyna, well I must point out that I started
this thread quoting some well known source regarding costs. And of
course I had to add in just a little bit of personal experience - sort
of like flavoring for the gravy. Then the question of tyres (or tires)
rose up more directly, so I made factual comment on the tire
performance question and raised a question as to why a luxury car
manufactor would put tires on that I consider inferior in performance,
life of tread, and noise generation. I have to tone down my colorfull
posting style quite a bit in here due to the extremely defensive
reactions such as that from 01dyna. Even so, I see no good reasons
advanced for using Dunlop tires - well - in my truly outstanding and
incomparable humility I suspect the explanation is that advanced by
Sir John Smythe - the board sitting around deciding how to displease
me.

So 01dyna - any comments about the tire questions or questions of cost
of ownership? Colorfull argumentum ad hominem welcome, of course, and
expected from you.

[GIga]

Give me a break McBrew-nutjob. Now you're pretending to be English? When
are you going to move on and buy something that meets your ridiculous
impressions of what a "True Luxury" car is (whatever the hell that means)?
Move on -- move on -- move on -- move ...

GIga

Post by mcbrue
Thank you for your kind words Homer. The biggest problem with the MB
turned out to be its reliability. So I decided to try the Lexus as I
had minimal difficulties with the two ES class cars. Now ... hmmmm ...
enginering for show instead of go ... high costs of operation and Oh
Those El Cheapo Oil jobs every couple of weeks ...
As to my new "friend" 01dyna, well I must point out that I started
this thread quoting some well known source regarding costs. And of
course I had to add in just a little bit of personal experience - sort
of like flavoring for the gravy. Then the question of tyres (or tires)
rose up more directly, so I made factual comment on the tire
performance question and raised a question as to why a luxury car
manufactor would put tires on that I consider inferior in performance,
life of tread, and noise generation. I have to tone down my colorfull
posting style quite a bit in here due to the extremely defensive
reactions such as that from 01dyna. Even so, I see no good reasons
advanced for using Dunlop tires - well - in my truly outstanding and
incomparable humility I suspect the explanation is that advanced by
Sir John Smythe - the board sitting around deciding how to displease
me.
So 01dyna - any comments about the tire questions or questions of cost
of ownership? Colorfull argumentum ad hominem welcome, of course, and
expected from you.

[Homer]

I used Michelin on my two Benzs. My E320 came with Continental Tires. The
Continental were okay. I changed to Michelin on the E320 when I needed new
tires. The E500 came with Michelin. I upgraded to the Pilot after
reviewing the notes on Tire Rack.
The Mercedes service has been okay. Got burned once on a break job. The
rep said I need pads on all four wheels and the whole system had to be shut
down to do the job. The information on other boards indicates that the
front goes twice before the rear. To shut the whole system down is no big
deal I found that out from an independent it takes about two minutes.

This board is very touchy. I have never seen comments like this on a
general discussion.

Post by mcbrue
Thank you for your kind words Homer. The biggest problem with the MB
turned out to be its reliability. So I decided to try the Lexus as I
had minimal difficulties with the two ES class cars. Now ... hmmmm ...
enginering for show instead of go ... high costs of operation and Oh
Those El Cheapo Oil jobs every couple of weeks ...
As to my new "friend" 01dyna, well I must point out that I started
this thread quoting some well known source regarding costs. And of
course I had to add in just a little bit of personal experience - sort
of like flavoring for the gravy. Then the question of tyres (or tires)
rose up more directly, so I made factual comment on the tire
performance question and raised a question as to why a luxury car
manufactor would put tires on that I consider inferior in performance,
life of tread, and noise generation. I have to tone down my colorfull
posting style quite a bit in here due to the extremely defensive
reactions such as that from 01dyna. Even so, I see no good reasons
advanced for using Dunlop tires - well - in my truly outstanding and
incomparable humility I suspect the explanation is that advanced by
Sir John Smythe - the board sitting around deciding how to displease
me.
So 01dyna - any comments about the tire questions or questions of cost
of ownership? Colorfull argumentum ad hominem welcome, of course, and
expected from you.

[St. John Smythe]

Post by Homer
This board is very touchy.

This is not a board.

I have never seen comments like this on a

Post by Homer
general discussion.

New to Usenet, are you?

[Homer]

I am sorry to use the wrong phrase. It is a newsgroup. I use the Usenet a
few years back. I think the year was about 1992 when I was using Prodigy as
an ISP. Do you remember the old BBS when you wanted to download up dates?
How long have you been using Usenet/Newsgroups?

Post by St. John Smythe

Post by Homer
This board is very touchy.

This is not a board.
I have never seen comments like this on a

Post by Homer
general discussion.

New to Usenet, are you?
--
sjs

[St. John Smythe]

Post by Homer
I am sorry to use the wrong phrase. It is a newsgroup. I use the Usenet a
few years back. I think the year was about 1992 when I was using Prodigy as
an ISP. Do you remember the old BBS when you wanted to download up dates?
How long have you been using Usenet/Newsgroups?

Since 1987, as an admin, and ran BBSes before that.

[mcbrue]

Hey Sir John, that Great Renaming wasn't when you invented the
internet, was it? Of course you had to change it to Arpanet so Al
could re-invent it as the internet ...

When did the commercial applications start?

And for my dearly loved friend Glga - looked at the Maseratti, but it
has too small a trunk. Good road passing speed though. And as roomy as
the LS - well, allmost. Surprised you picked up on the error in
spelling, but I guess you do have to be able to read.

[St. John Smythe]

Post by mcbrue
Hey Sir John, that Great Renaming wasn't when you invented the
internet, was it? Of course you had to change it to Arpanet so Al
could re-invent it as the internet ...
When did the commercial applications start?

No, ARPANET predated the Great Renaming by about 18 years. The Internet
opened to commercial interests in 1988. On Usenet, commercial
applications began when Canter and Siegel invented spam in 1994. Of
course, by that time, the WWW had been around for three years or so,
having gotten underway arguably in 1991, if memory serves.

Remember that the Internet is not the Web is not Usenet.

[mcbrue]

Ah ... an historian! Thank you for the history, but I fear that you
left out Al Gore's invention of the internet. And I hadn't heard that
spam was invented by a pair of people. I wonder if you could expand on
that a bit.

[St. John Smythe]

Post by mcbrue
Ah ... an historian! Thank you for the history, but I fear that you
left out Al Gore's invention of the internet. And I hadn't heard that
spam was invented by a pair of people. I wonder if you could expand on
that a bit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canter_&_Siegel

[j***@hotmail.com]

I thought Bridgestone/Firestones were bad!

However Michelins and Pirellis are considered premium tires. I'm
surprised Toyota didn't use them on their Lexus. Cost too much I
guess.

Post by mcbrue
The original tyres were Dunlop. I put Michelin tyres on it and the car
runs quieter and handles better. Why would a car maker put inferior
tyres on as original equipment?

[Graybeard]

When I bought our Lexus ES350 (with the piston-slap engine last year), the
dealer said that the cars come in with different tires at different times.
Some have Michelins. Ours has Bridgestone Taranza tires. Our Toyota Avalon
had Michelins.
Graybeard

Post by j***@hotmail.com
I thought Bridgestone/Firestones were bad!
However Michelins and Pirellis are considered premium tires. I'm
surprised Toyota didn't use them on their Lexus. Cost too much I
guess.

Post by mcbrue
The original tyres were Dunlop. I put Michelin tyres on it and the car
runs quieter and handles better. Why would a car maker put inferior
tyres on as original equipment?